This is a special, bonus episode where the tables are turned and I’m the one interviewed by none other than Laurie Santos, Yale professor and host of The Happiness Lab podcast.

On The Happiness Lab, Dr Laurie Santos shares evidence-based research that challenges what we think it means to live a happy life. This season, she’s helping listeners navigate something most of us avoid: so-called ‘bad’ feelings – with guests including the wonderful Julia Samuel, Brené Brown, Adam Grant and…me!

In this episode, we talk about:

• why our view of sadness needs to be rehabilitated
• how we react to sadness in a variety of unhelpful ways
• why we try to suppress sadness
• experiencing guilt - and apologising for feeling

…because, spoiler alert, sadness will touch us all - so to be happier and more resilient we need to accept the emotion. You can hear more episodes of The Happiness Lab at https://link.chtbl.com/helenrussellhappinesslab @lauriesantos on Twitter and @ lauriesantosofficial on Instagram.

Follow me @MsHelenRussell - and the book, How To Be Sad is out now in the US (hardback, HarperOne) and the UK (in paperback! @4th Estate)

I’ll be back next week with another very special guest for more on how learning to be sad may be the key to a happier life. If you enjoy the podcast, I’d be utterly delighted if you could rate, review and subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Thanks so much to Joel Grove for production and Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making the podcast happen.