Dealing With Toxic People At Work, with guest Ann Betz

The People Impact Podcast

Aug 24 2023 • 31 mins

Ann Betz is an expert on evidence-based neuroscience, human development and coaching, and she’s here to talk about toxic workplace culture and toxic personalities.


On the one hand, when coaches work with a coachee sitting in front of us, we focus on that person and what they want do differently in their lives. On the other hand, sometimes people are in systems where it is not up to them at all to get better at something, it’s the situation and work relationships that are toxic.


Being in a toxic environment can be like having someone smoking next to you: the solution is not to have a more patient, constructive, zen perspective about the smoke. You really just want to get rid of the smoke.


Toxicity often comes from someone with power in the organisation, with toxic traits and behaviours that are unregulated. Ann states that, in toxic workplaces, we tend to overlook that some people will not change. They will continue going from organisation to organisation, from role to role within an organisation, creating mental and physical health issues in their wake. Toxic people rise to certain levels. A part of it is because so much of what we believe leadership to be has been rooted in very toxic behaviours. Another part is that these people want to get to that level, badly.


We need to address this more and get rid of the smoker, rather than offering air filters, or face masks.


The great myth is that these toxic people are so valuable to the organisation that their bad behaviour is excused. What gets overlooked, Ann notices, is the value that gets destroyed because people are yelled at, shut down, creativity is gone. For the individual, the best solution is often to leave and find another job.


“I think, what was lost?”


Regulation is an important factor, and for that it is essential to spot the difference between a person who is having a bad day and someone who genuinely lacks self-regulation and self-awareness. Someone who isn’t going to change.


The distinction is in seeing patterns.


Ann shares clear patterns and red flags to consider, from the ‘fauxpology’ to ‘this is just who I am’ and even the ‘poor me’. She elaborates on the CRAVED model (developed by Dr Ramani Durvasula) for patterns of behaviour. And she recommends effective actions to take when you encounter highly powerful toxic people.


Do share this information, widely. It helps. Learn the ways to discern – and of flipping the script on someone who is genuinely toxic.


Then we have the opportunity to say: “The buck stops here.”



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