Why does the economy look so good to economists but feel so bad to voters? The Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman joins the hosts to discuss why inflation, interest rates and wages aren’t in line with voters’ perception of the economy. Then, they debate with Paul how big of an influence the economy will be on the 2024 presidential election, and which of the two presumed candidates, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, it could benefit. Plus, Ross's lessons on aging, through Michael Caine impressions.

Mentioned in this episode:

• “Believing Is Seeing,” from Paul Krugman’s newsletter
• “The Age of Diminished Expectations,” by Paul Krugman
• “The Trip” scene: “This Is How Michael Caine Speaks”

(A full transcript of this audio essay will be available within 24 hours of publication on the Times website.)

Thoughts about the show? Email us at matterofopinion@nytimes.com. And tell us how the state of the economy will – or won’t – affect your 2024 vote and why in a voice mail message by calling (212) 556-7440.