Catch up with the Two Trying Birds and their efforts to go alcohol free. This week they talk to Dean Stalham about the seriousness of addiction and the challenges it presents for partners of those experiencing addiction issues. Sometimes Real Life just gets in the way, Jenn and Carlotta have found it hard keeping up with the podcast this time, and real life is HARD, but we still manage a few laughs

Dean Stalham is a British self-taught artist, playwright and community activist from North London. He has spent time in prison for handling stolen artworks. Dean writes and performs regularly and is currently working on a feature film set in Margate

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Jennifer O'Donnell and Carlotta Allum witter on about trying not drink, with special guests