Prisons don't do what we want them to do. Should we ditch them? Or perhaps reimagine them?

Cait speaks to abolitionist and criminologist David Scott about why he hopes for a world without prisons.

Then she interviews Are Hoidal, former warden of Halden Prison in Norway, about a different approach to imprisonment that seems to yield better results.

For background reading and a list of references, visit cantseethewood.com