Blake Beus  0:00   I've heard this term float floating around zero pixel tracking,

Greg Marshall  0:03   or as you call it, zero pickle,

Blake Beus  0:05   zero. I'm full of it today, everything zero pickup pixel tracking. And I like I like that term. And it's something we've actually talked about, we didn't have this catchy term, sure term for it. But let's, let's take a step back and talk about the problems with iOS 1415. And upcoming 16, I believe, and why that's relevant. So what what, what problems did iOS 14 put in place that everybody freaked out about? Yeah, as advertisers, so

Greg Marshall  0:41   basically, you know, you just couldn't track as accurately anymore. And there was just so many targeting options taken away. So much data collection taken away, the reporting is way off. And because of that, that does impact advertisers spending, the confidence of how well your ads are doing. A lot of it can be psychological, if you're not looking at your actual numbers, and just, you know, change, people hate change. And I think iOS really put, you know, really put advertisers, businesses marketers in a tough spot, at least for a little bit, because of how everything was done in the old days, right, when the wild wild west of targeting and tracking and just plugging, there's just so many more steps now you have to do to try to get cleaner data. Yeah. So that's basically what happened.

Blake Beus  1:34   Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I know, people tend to dislike change, or change throws people off. But especially in the advertising world, I feel like when change happens, it's, it's, it's a huge opportunity to level up, because, you know, some advertisers are not going to put the extra effort in to, to learn the new, learn the new way things are working, right, live live in the new world. And so they're gonna fall behind and new, you know, advertisers that are willing to be a little bit scrappy, and try new things, and whatever can contend to get ahead. Yep. So one of the things, you know, zero pixels. So I guess I'll talk really quick about the pixel just to give people a background and why zero pixel is even a thing. So how it used to work is you could install this tracking pixel on your website. And the tracking pixel was literally just a one by one pixel image, a lot of people don't realize that that's all it was. But when when the browser would load that image, you could also append some additional data, like which click ID they used when they clicked on the ad, or the browser ID of the person. Or if you've previously identified that person, you could even pass their email address and some other things back into Facebook system, or Google system, or whatever. And so you could connect the dots between data and events that happen outside of Facebook, we'll talk specifically about Facebook, outside of Facebook, you could connect the dots with what happened with a specific Facebook user and some things along those lines. And that was great for advertisers because we could track this person was actually the person that bought this thing, this person in Facebook world was the person that bought this thing over here, you could report that back, your ads reporting was nice, you could see how much you spent, how much you made, the dollar amount, amount, how many sales you had, or how many leads you had, and it was great. When iOS 14 came around, they said we are going to block third party tracking. And what that meant was any stuff that happened outside of Facebook, they're going to block reporting that back into Facebook, and it's a data privacy thing. In the grand scheme of things, most people probably wouldn't be okay with how much data collection Facebook was doing at the time. Maybe not even be that much data tracking they're doing now. But it was good for advertisers. Yeah. So when they did that mobile devices make up? I don't know why on it on most websites, I look at these days, I would say mobile iOS devices make up probably 50 to 60% of the trials gonna

Greg Marshall  4:22   say 70% 70% on many sites. Yeah, as high as

Blake Beus  4:27   and it's in it's higher when that traffic came from Facebook because I have something like 90% of users that use Facebook, use it on a mobile device, right. And so so the tracking just went through through it just hit right into the concrete. It was terrible. And everybody freaked out. Facebook kept promising. They're going to have a good way to handle it. Google was like, Oh, we've been we've been through this rodeo before. We've already got this figured out. Figured out but Facebook, freaked out and a lot of advertisers freaked out in the game. seem completely changed. But you've said before, it was it was so good back then that it kind of made advertisers lazy if they could just rely on, you know, campaign tricks and things and make money. Yeah,

Greg Marshall  5:15   just basically have just like a maybe have a good offer, you didn't have to do much to make it work. Because quite frankly, the pixel will do a lot of the work for you soon. So people can get away with just like throwing up an Amen, it's a couple of words, get some really, you know, dialed in targeting, and start making money. And that's it. And essentially, the iOS 14 changes have impacted that particular advertiser. One who didn't do the research, understand sales, understand that copy, understand the good offer, having all those in place. And those are usually those are the ones that panic the absolute most. And I think, with the challenges with the iOS 14, and me being a media buyer, I will constantly have to explain why the numbers weren't going back into the ad account and talking about essentially the good old days, right? Like, yeah, I used to run these ads. And I would get like, you know, fill in the blank 7x return on marketing. And now I'm only getting a three, right? And they would kind of measure the success on past old campaigns where it's kind of like measuring different things, right? So well, just because you got A's in first grade doesn't automatically mean you should be getting A's and 12th grade, you still have to do the word you still like it doesn't carry over, right? And so you have to adjust and get better each and every way of the of the journey. So that's basically what I'll have to always explain is, yes, it used to work that way. But it no longer does. And we need to adjust to that. Because if we, if you get stuck in that mindset, you can put yourself right out of business, because you're just like, stuck in the old days. Like imagine if you just kept thinking like, No, I want reality to be newspapers at my front door every day. Yeah. And I don't want to learn how to use a computer, or a cell phone or syntax, because I don't want to do that. Because I just, I liked how it used to be. Yeah, imagine where you would be today. Yeah. jobless,

Blake Beus  7:18   jobless. Yeah, yeah. So Sorry, I keep going back to the kindergarten grades versus 12 grade grades. And just thinking about coloring in lines and what you did in kindergarten to get your good grades, and 12th grade coloring in those circle bubbles just just fine. They might not be the right circle bubble, but at least you stayed within the lines. If it doesn't the skill doesn't transfer. You got it, you got to keep up with the times. And so, so yeah, it threw everybody through loop. Now let's talk about what zero pixel tracking means. Yeah, right.

Greg Marshall  7:52   Well, I mean, the way I would, so really what this is, is 00, I can send a zero pixel track pixel zero. Really what this is, is a matter of, you're not using the pixel or over, I guess, like, over relying on the pixel to do most of your work, or the tracking any of that, you're actually using things that are going to happen inside the app, where the data is a little bit more accurate. So for example, before we hit record, Blake was talking about video views, right, you can optimize for video views within the platform. And then retarget that people who've watched a are 90 or 100% of that video, and that data lives within Facebook. And that can't get lost because Facebook isn't charged? Correct?

Blake Beus  8:45   Yeah. And it's part of the terms that you agree to when you create a Facebook account. And periodically, they'll send you an email saying, Hey, we updated our terms, which we all read, right? Yeah, I don't read any of those. I just assumed that they updated their terms to be able to collect more data on me and I either need to be okay with that or stop using Facebook. Yeah. But that happens within there. So there's literally nothing that Apple can do to prevent or Google or whatever whatever device you're on to prevent Facebook can from collecting data that happens within their app, they have every right to do that. There's no legal issues with that. There's no the big issue was data from some other source transferring back into Facebook and allowing Facebook to be this massive data collection company. But if you're inside the app, all of that data is fair game. So the old way of of of running a campaign for four or five years ago, and this still works like this isn't an old way you see people do this all the time was to was to run a campaign. Drop people on a landing page to get a lead. And then you follow up via email and a retargeting campaign based on the page views on your website. But the retargeting campaign The audience that makes up your campaign had to be created by pixel data. Yep. And with iOS blocking pixel data, you missing still run that, but you're just not going to get anybody that viewed your page with iOS 14. Yep. So you might still get the leads, and you might not be able to still email them. But they're not going to show up in your retargeting audience. Yeah, but now, you can run a campaign with some sort of in app. Re targetable data. Yep. And build your retargeting audiences based on that. Yep. And those can be video views. Those can be on Instagram that can be business profile visits. Yep. Interacting with posts, lead gen. Lead Gen in app lead gen, right. Because Facebook has their in app lead forms. Yep. So they don't have to leave it. And I'm trying to think of other ways that like, I know, there's

Greg Marshall  10:54   a way you got post engagements you've got, you know, clicked on ADD, you've got I mean, you can do combinations of these. The biggest, the favorite one, a lot of advertisers uses the video views. Yeah, it's one of my favorites, because you can track how far people have watched the video and just speak to the ones that have someone watched 100% of the video. Yeah, they're probably more qualified than someone who watched three seconds. Right. Right. So it's a it's it gives you a form of qualification when you do this. So and in app is great. The other people who've messaged your business, that's another one. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Messaging.

Blake Beus  11:27   That's another one. Yeah. So like,

Greg Marshall  11:28   this is a great way too. If you do in app, one technique I used to use a long time ago, as funny as I kind of come back around, was optimizing for messages for people to send you a Facebook Messenger. Yeah. Responding to Your ad, and then go back and forth with them, and then get them on the phone and then sell them. And I think there's, there's really not that much of a difference between and you let me know, because this is where your expertise comes in. But it feels like when you optimize for different objectives for years, people have always said, under no circumstances authorize for anything else, but conversions. Right, right. And the I guess the the logic was that if you optimize for purchases, it hits a different part of the audience, that target audience than if you used a different objective. Right. Sometimes I wonder, though, if we've lost that data from from the conversion side, does that actually make everything kind of more fair game? Because if you're if you lost 80% of your data, then that targeting capability is not the same, right? Yeah. But I always found that optimizing for messages work just as well as optimizing for lead that then I just tried to book a call talk to him on the phone. Yeah. Given you have a structured follow up process. Yeah. And that's, that's just my experience. And I even used the engagement objective, and the messaging objective, and in many times, actually, the engagement objective worked better than that. So you always want to test it. But that's, that's kind of my thoughts. What are your thoughts about the algorithm hitting different segments of that audience, and how's it impacted now versus your past?

Blake Beus  13:17   So my, my guess, and I would love to kind of keep an eye on this over time, is the optimizing for conversion. If your conversion happens off site, off of Facebook, or your own website, if it happens on your website, optimizing for conversion, is going to continue to get worse and worse and worse results over time. And the reason it may not have happened right away is Facebook still had a lot of conversion data, right? It's historical data. But that data gets stale. It becomes out of date and gets moldy and old. Yeah, and, and over time, but if let's say you have an audience, that's 100,000 people, and you're optimizing for conversion, what Facebook is trying to do is say, Okay, which of these people which five or 10% of this audience is ready to convert right now based on their past behaviors, but if a lot of their past behavior data is now dark, yep, you can't get that past behavior, then the, they're going to have a harder time identifying the five or 10% of that 100,000 person audience that is ready for conversion, and how they can track what's ready for conversion and say I have I have an offer for a freebie that's that's like the the five best marketing strategies for podcasts. And Greg over here has been signing up for you know, podcast guru overhears email list, and this podcast person over here and Pat Flynn. I know he's great. I love it. But he's got a podcasting course and you sign up for his freebie over there. Well, Greg is really ready to sign up also for my free podcast. You know, freebie, and so they can clearly identify that Greg is hot, he's he's ready to, to convert, you're good to go, he fits in that 5% audience. But if they lost all of that data from all these other advertisers, because the pixel is not tracking Facebook no longer no no longer knows, and that data that they have on conversions is, is old. Yep. And so that's why I think optimizing for conversions is probably going to get worse and worse and worse over time, which kind of sucks, it was a nice week, we could just tell the algorithm we want, this is the thing we actually want, we don't need to beat around the bush, we can just tell you and be very direct, we want to conversion we want to purchase or we want to leave form, sign up and optimize for those conversions. But now, it's like, we've got to, we've got to kind of hint that that's what we want, we've got to use other signals, we've got to feed other signals into the algorithm to tell it, these are the types of people that we're pretty sure are going to convert. And obviously, we got to test that to see which ones are actually converting and then say, okay, we want more of

Greg Marshall  16:06   these people. What about the so in app, it seems like the cost per action in app is always cheaper, like the traffic is always cheaper than the conversion or off off app? data, right? At this point? Yeah. With the with the changes. Is that do you think it's possible that if you choose the conversion objective and has less data, that you could get a better result using a different objective targeting the same assuming the audience exactly the same? Simply just because there's more data on the in app versus off the app? Because, in my mind, it always feels like when you optimize for conversion off app, the CPM or the cost for the traffic is much higher than when you do it for inside the app. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Blake Beus  17:01   Yeah, I mean, I've seen that exact same thing as well, that the CPMs are always higher for some sort of offline conversion, or off site conversion, than it is for some sort of in app or in ecosystem conversion. As far as why I think it I think a lot of it has to do with, with just the incentives that Facebook has, or Google or we say Facebook a lot, but or Google, any of them the things, the incentives, they have to keep people inside their app. So So think about it this way, say, say you're now Facebook, and your job is to increase the profit of the company. Every time someone leaves our app, that's an opportunity that they won't come back. Yep. Okay. And so I think they are want to incentivize advertisers to say, hey, let's do everything inside our ecosystem. Keep you here, because if someone signs up using a lead form in ours, in our app, they're not leaving our app. And they'll keep scrolling when they're done, which means they they'll see more advertisers, and which means we'll make more money. I'm not necessarily saying that's a good thing. I'm saying that's where the incentives are for Facebook to behave. And that's the playground we need to play in the app. Because if we're going to play in Facebook's sandbox, we got to play by the rules. And unless you're a government agency, you have you have zero, say on how Facebook sets its rules. Let me

Greg Marshall  18:31   ask you, here's a question. What about my my theory was also a lot of people are going for a conversion, specifically, towards very popular audiences. Does that bid get higher because it's more saturated with people versus using another bid?

Blake Beus  18:51   Yeah, I would, you know, now that you say that, that wasn't something I thought about, but absolutely, I mean, we've talked about that. And in general, the people that are optimizing for conversions are willing to pay higher pay a larger, pay more money for those conversions. I know. With with running, if we skip over into Google, and we start talking about search ads, yeah, there's a whole methodology of keyword research, which keywords are going to be the ones that are going to get the conversions. And, frankly, for me, one of the best things I always did that seemed to work is I would put in keywords, I would sort them based on the average bid. Yep. And I would choose the highest bid amount and bid a little bit higher than that. And because those were the keywords that were converting, the reason people were paying high dollar amounts 2030 $40 A click a click on those is because they're buying those people are buying Yep. And when you have a higher priced offer, this particular client that I'm thinking of here had had an offer that the starting price was $1,200 a month. You know, $30 a click is nothing if your conversion rate is high. And for the right people, their conversion rate rate was really high once they sign up on the form, and they had a good follow up process, and everything. So it didn't, it was great for them, their ROI was insane. Because people would sign up for this $1,200 A month starting at $1,200 a month, and they would stay with them for years and years and years because it was a service. Well, I

Greg Marshall  20:20   think so bidding in different parts of the auction makes a difference. And I think within App, you really should test it because you can't get a lot of value. I know, at least for me, I've always felt like, I guess other people talking about bidding strategies and stuff like that have always made it sound like if you do in app, it's like garbage traffic, like Facebook has given you like, the lower quality traffic. I'm not always sure that's the case. I've run a bunch of campaigns with engagements and, you know, video views and stuff like that. And I've seen, like, I pretty much back check, like to see who's watching or clicking it. And it seems pretty much like the same type of person that I want to go after anyways,

Blake Beus  21:07   I think I think that stems from a people people's mis understanding of the numbers they're seeing, and I guess let me put it this way. So you're optimizing for conversions, right? Your CPMs are higher, let's, let's say your CPMs are 10 $10. Yeah, per 1000. That's pretty high for a CPM. Now, depending on your offer, whatever $10. And so you get, you get a click through rate of, you know, 2%, whatever, you get a conversion rate, and once people land on your on your page of, of two to two to 4%, whatever, and you're thinking that's pretty good. You know, I'm making my sales, I'm paying a lot, but I'm making sales, and I'm profitable. And, and that's pretty good. And then you have, say, an engagement campaign or a video view video view campaign, where your CPMs are, I don't know. $2 really low, like, way 1/5 what you're paying for? And so for the same dollar amount, you can get five times the traffic. Yeah. But then your click through rate is point five. Yeah. And your lead lead signup rate is, is one. Yep. And so they're like, Ah, this is just garbage traffic. Yeah. But the thing is, is you are able to reach five times the number of people with the same ad spent Yeah, and your end result might actually be more profit. Yeah. Because you're able to reach out to more people. And so it's easy to just kind of write that off as garbage traffic traffic. But the reality is, is, well, of course, the other traffic was better, because you were paying five times the amount for that traffic. But this traffic could be more profitable, because the numbers are your the numbers are working out. But because the percentages are smaller, you're thinking Ah, that's that's garbage traffic. I'm not wasting my time with that, you know, something

Greg Marshall  22:59   that Mollie Pittman, so that caught my attention last week. And they're very successful. And scaling campaigns. In fact, I would pretty much say that's their specialty, is scaling. She had mentioned though, she was like, Well, you can't always bid for like that final event, forever, meaning not like you stop it. But like there's only a certain percentage of people in market to purchase today. So when you're scaling she was talking about, you have to have other strategies. Yeah, that aren't like optimizing from. She She specifically said, from AD to product page. Seems like there's only so many people who will see an ad and convert a product page, at certain budgets, eventually, you'll burn through that audience. And you'll have to optimize for lead opt ins, and put them through a funnel or put them through content and convert them that way. Which I thought was interesting, because you almost never heard anyone talk about that. But I take their word for it, because I know that they spend huge amounts of of money scaling campaigns. And to me, it makes sense because you're like, Well, if I had a 10 million audience, and I'm going after purchases, I can't spend unlimited. Because if it's only 5% of the audience at any given time, and I'm spending a million dollars a day eventually, I would have tapped out. Yeah, that audience. Yeah. And so yeah, but But you know, there's more buyers in there. Maybe they're just not in market today. Right. And that was interesting. That's interesting.

Blake Beus  24:29   That's what a lot of people and that's one of the reasons I like a lot of Molly's stuff. People don't realize that these audiences are fluid. Yeah, right. When I say this audience has a million people in it. And they're thinking, aha, there's a million little Gregg's and Blake's and, and whoever's in there, but at any given point in time, people are leaving that audience and they're joining that audience. It's that audience is is like this bucket of attributes, and there's a stream of water of people moving in and out this little section and yeah, water is a great pace. place to do it. Like you have this fishing hole. Yep. Right and this, the rivers going down, the fish can stream up swim upstream or downstream. But they're coming into this hole right here at this point in time, there's way more fish in the river. Yeah. But

Greg Marshall  25:15   this part is only like three or four that come through this section. Yeah, that are ready to get her on today to bite sizes three, and sometimes zero.

Blake Beus  25:24   Right? And so and so if you think about it, too, you also have people that are in that hole right now. But they just ate Yeah, they're not hungry. Yeah, you know what I mean? They're, they're in the market. But right now at this instant, they're doing something else. And that's something else could be I, you know, driving my kids to soccer practice or whatever. And so what you need to do is think about this more holistically, which we talk about all the time, as is holistic marketing. But think about it holistically. Going back to what I was saying earlier about the cheaper traffic, the one thing that's hard to measure almost impossible to measure is you reached five times the amount of people with the same budget, that's five times the amount of wareness, which means that next time they see one of your offers for something this or that, they're way more likely to click to click on that. And everybody thinks about the end event. And that's what Molly was talking about. You can't always just optimize for the end event. And so having something where you are basically back to the river river analogy upstream, you're basically find some way to whisper to the fish. There's some real good food down there. Just don't eat. Don't eat right now. Yep, don't eat here. You need to be hungry when you're down there, because that's where the good food is. Right? And so you're, you're basically telling people, Hey, you know, there's good stuff coming up there. Get familiar with things. And then when they are ready, they're ready. They're ready, that people sometimes take time you have people that are fast. People that take a few weeks, people that take a few months. Yeah. And so you have to kind of think about that holistically. And I think I was gonna say that's why probably a lot of your campaigns, we've talked about this before, where you have an engagement campaign, a conversion campaign, a retargeting campaign, a video views campaign. And maybe none of those are actually spending 1000s of dollars a day, maybe this one's 10, this one's five, this one's whatever. But when you have them all together, you seem to be making way more sales, even though inside of ads manager, none of them seems to be doing that. Great.

Greg Marshall  27:26   And that's like, for me, like personally like my business. I always have multiple types of those campaigns running at any given moment, using reach engagement, video views and conversion all the time. Yeah. And then on top of that content marketing there. And the reason is, because for me, I understand that I'm in this for the long haul. And I know not everyone's ready to buy immediately, I get a lot of people who reach out say, Hey, I've seen your ads, and I watched some of your content for like, a year now. Yeah. And then they purchased. But if I just like stopped any efforts, because it wasn't like that person didn't sign up, like right away, then I would have never gotten a plus, over time. I like to look at it just as marketing momentum, like a machine. Yeah. Over time, it builds up and becomes easier, just like content marketing, the first day you start content marketing is the least profitable. Yeah, right. But over time, it starts to compound. Because if people have seen you for years, your conversion rates are easy, people are ready to buy. But it's very, it's very easy to kind of look at well, if I if I put some out today and didn't get it, and our Hi impulsive world now, then it doesn't work. Yeah. versus looking at it like this is this can be a process, you know, this is going to take time, but if you stick with it, your results will be much better. But that's that's mostly where I think pixel pixel data and stuff like that, really almost train the minds of everyone to think even more impulsively than we already do. Right? Because it's like, Hey, we've got this tool that can get you a sale today. You can put an ad out and get a sale now. Yeah. And that's trust me. I love that too. No, it's great. Like, it's it's a great thing to have. But I think what that also trains you is to think that's how it should be always and you always get spoiled. You almost think like, well, if I put $1 out now I should get $5 back now.

Blake Beus  29:23   Yeah. I mean, how many times? How many times did you know four or five years ago? Was Was the advice put up 10 campaigns, and then you just turn off those that aren't converting within 24 hours, and then they got to the point where you need to give it a couple of days. Still that's really

Greg Marshall  29:39   impulsive. You actually need to have a couple of days when building a business and a couple. Yeah, no.

Blake Beus  29:45   It's like, you've got to have this kind of overarching strategy and none of this has to cost you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars a day. You shouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars a day unless you have already tested some things in there working you've and you've scaled up you have a good strategy and a good strategy for Follow up for your, for your whatever. But But yeah, I want to shift gears just a little bit before we finish this one, there's one other pixel three, zero pixel pixel three pixel list, data point that we haven't talked about that you've had quite a bit of success with. That's offline events.

Greg Marshall  30:16   Oh, yeah, offline events are great. And I do believe that they have stabilized a lot of the ad accounts, since the iOS 14 change. And they weren't great. Simply because and I don't even know all of like the technicality of I just know it works very well, you just download the data from your store, or your CRM system, wherever you're collecting it, and then re uploading it back into your ads manager. Or off, I don't even know the correct name, the offline events manager, maybe. Yeah. And then what that does is it matches the data back to be able to see if that person was online on that. And my assumption is that they're using probability. Is that Is that how that kind of works? I don't even know how it works. Yeah, completely. I just know that it works.

Blake Beus  31:00   Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, there's, there's there's kind of two different ways to do offline data. And Facebook calls it offline data, but they also have their conversions API. But to take a step back how both of those work. And I actually think if you have the capabilities to do both, you should do both. But how the offline API works is, I have a store, you come to my store you buy but as part of the buy process, you have to put in, you know, your your email address, your phone number, your physical address, zip code, zip codes, all of that stuff, and then you buy. But now I have that data. I can download a spreadsheet of that data. And or the I'm sorry, the the conversions API, takes that data and uses a program programmatic way to push that back into Facebook, to basically say, here's the name, email address, phone number, address, zip code of this person. And then Facebook tries to match that data with what they know about their users and say, okay, cool. This was Greg. Yep. The offline event data is very similar. Except for that you essentially manually download a spreadsheet of that. And then you manually upload that spreadsheet. And it seems like the exact same data, but I feel like every time I've seen both be turned on, the results are better. So Whoo. They're trying to figure out who that stuff is. It has a lot to do with probabilities, right? Because there's multiple Greg marshals out there. I don't know if there's some with the same zip code or whatever. Or maybe you've never given your address and ZIP code to Facebook. So they don't know that you're that Greg Yep. And so they they will apply a probability saying we're pretty sure it was this person. And once it hits a certain confidence level, they will attribute that in your ads manager. Well, I

Greg Marshall  32:46   think one of the key pieces to this, this is why I said if they're using probability is the time of purchase. Yeah, because that seems to be a data point that if you upload and offline events makes a huge difference. And that time of purchase, that's where I think these probability because then they're like, this is his full name. This is the city he's in. This is the time that our system sees that he was on. While also this purchase happened on the same time,

Blake Beus  33:11   we see that he clicked on his ad at this time. Yep. And, you know, a minute and a half later, we get this purchase event with someone that has the exact same name, same zip code, same whatever. Yeah,

Greg Marshall  33:24   that's that's the probability part comes in is the time that the title was purchased. Because then that really narrows it down. Right? Because it's like, if there are, you know, 10, grand marshals all in the same city, you know, all using Facebook, but there was a purchase made at this time, and I was on it this time. And this particular city, then I think they narrows it down a lot it kind of makes towards like it most likely was him. Yep. Right. So I think offline data is very useful. Using as much data as you can. So like help feed your accounts, I think is very useful. Because from the technical side, I feel like it probably does help optimize it, because it's giving the machine more data to work with versus 80% less. And I found that with the offline events, it just seems to stabilize. Yeah. Like there's not as much up and down it feels like and that's just been my experience.

Blake Beus  34:21   And that's like, this is where we kind of come back to basics. I mean, we've talked a lot about messaging in past episodes. And this one, we're talking about these old school tactics that kind of fell out of favor once the pixel got so good, that they're now coming back. And you're using these old school methods. It almost feels like we're moving back into the direct mailing. Ah, yeah, the Mac admin age, Dan Kennedy, where you're you're focusing on these foundational principles of psychological selling basically using Using words and things to do things and then doing some rudimentary data analytics, ie uploading a spreadsheet, like how old is that that is, but well, you know, the spreadsheet and it gives us more consistent data

Greg Marshall  35:13   you just made me realize from after having this talk about this, really all offline events is is the same as like, back in the day when you you know, maybe running a direct mail campaign, and you sold 25 people. And you're like, Okay, so I sold 25 people, where do these people come from? And you're looking, you're really like, you're using Facebook, almost in the same sense that you would use this your own brain back in the day Ryoga? Wha had these two campaigns this person? It sounds like they saw this offer instead of that one. So that probably came from direct mail piece a Yeah, this one came from direct mail he's been and you're just kind of like mapping it together, figure out. Alright, it looks like these campaigns worked. Yeah, it I spent $2,000. And I got $8,000 back. Fantastic.

Blake Beus  36:04   It works. Maybe we we run another test to target the ones that we felt like worked best to see if we can confirm Yeah, that that creative or geographic areas area was hot, and tried again. But that's really not a lot different. And it's probably going to get more and more like that we have all these fancy tools. There's a lot of businesses out there that are trying to solve this data connection problem automatically. And, and all of that you've got high row seats, and all these others. But the thing is, is once once all of those get big enough, they're going to also get apples on Apples hit list. So they will work for a time until they get big enough. And then Apple will be like, Nope, that's third party data. Get over to here. Well, you flew under the radar for now. But now you're on our block list. And now and then it will stop working. Yeah. But a good old fashioned spreadsheet.

Greg Marshall  36:55   Yeah. It's I mean, testimony,

Blake Beus  36:58   it's your data. It's your data, I bought data, I'm giving it to my advertiser to connect the dots. There's there's nothing wrong with that.

Greg Marshall  37:05   So yeah, so I think outside of that, I mean, using an app tracking can be very helpful. I would recommend testing and using it. Especially if you're someone that's thinking about being in business over the long term, I think it'd be very valuable for you to utilize it. And one thing that I think works really well, when you do a lot of these kind of an app, or downloading spreadsheets and stuff like that, I think it's useful to help the business owner marketer truly understand their business better. Because you're not relying on a machine where you're not even looking at it. You're like almost forced to really analyze things and go like, why did this work? Who are these people that are clicking on this? What are they doing? I feel like it almost forces you to research your own company better, which is more effective, I think, just for your own good amongst like, really, at the end of the day, all marketing and businesses is understanding your customer on a deep level. Yeah. And being able to speak to them and give them what they need. And I think by doing these techniques, it helps you understand that better, in my opinion.

Blake Beus  38:14   Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's wrap it up. Greg. How do people get in touch with you

Greg Marshall  38:19   Greg Marshall Dotco, you can go ahead and book a free strategy session and

Blake Beus  38:23   Blake beus.com/sm Three is the best way to get in touch with me.

Greg Marshall  38:27   So until next time, we'll see you later. Okay, bye.