Max's Journey to Success: A Neurodivergent Story of Overcoming Challenges and Finding Belonging -- Max shares his unique journey of overcoming autism and his path to success. He talks about the tools he used to thrive in life, from the Listening Program app to extra-curricular activities. His vulnerable story is full of insight and inspiration, teaching listeners the power of determination and resilience. Max also reflects on his childhood and the experiences that shaped him. Hear his stories and learn from his advice in the Secret Life podcast.
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If you or anyone you know is struggling with addiction, depression, trauma, sexual abuse or feeling overwhelmed, we've compiled a list of resources at secretlifepodcast.com.
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To share your secret and be a guest on the show email secretlifepodcast@icloud.com
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SECRET LIFE’S TOPICS INCLUDE:
addiction recovery, mental health, alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, love addiction, OCD, ADHD, dyslexia, eating disorders, debt & money issues, anorexia, depression, shoplifting, molestation, sexual assault, trauma, relationships, self-love, friendships, community, secrets, self-care, courage, freedom, and happiness.
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About our guest, MAX KORTEN - Max, a former research and assessment coordinator at Lincoln University, is an assessment specialist at Strayer University. He hopes that his TEDx talk will inspire positive change within others.
Ted Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/max_korten_living_beyond_your_invisible_letter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJi3xu5OOMM&t=6s
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Create and Host Your Podcast with the same host we use - RedCircle
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Get your copy of SECRET LIFE OF A HOLLYWOOD SEX & LOVE ADDICT -- Secret Life Novel or on Amazon
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Transcript
[0:00:00] Max: I did not like having autism. And I think in a way, I was almost trying to, like I was trying to, like, push myself out of autism.
[0:00:15] Brianne Davis: Welcome to the Secret Life Podcast. Tell me your secret, I'll tell you mine.
Sometimes you have to go through the darkness to reach the light. That's what I did. After twelve years of recovery in sex and love addiction, I finally found my soulmate myself. Please join me in my novel, Secret Life of a Hollywood Sex and Love Addict, a four-time bestseller on Amazon. It's a brutal, honest, raw, gnarly ride, but hilarious at the same time. Check it out now on Amazon. Welcome to Secret Life Podcast. I'm Brianne Davis-Gantt. Today I'm pulling back the curtains of all kinds of human secrets. We'll hear about what people are hiding from themselves or others. You know those deep, dark secrets you probably want to take to your grave are those lighter, funnier secrets that are just plain embarrassing. Really? The what, when, where and why of it all.
[0:01:14] Brianne Davis: My guest is Max. Now, Max, I have a question for you. What is your secret?
[0:01:27] Max: When I was growing up, until I left for college, I was extremely abashed for having autism.
[0:01:37] Brianne Davis: So you carried around for the longest time that you had autism and you didn't share it with anybody?
[0:01:43] Max: Well, I was diagnosed when I was 18 months old, and this was in 1995 when autism was fairly new. But my family knew that I had autism. Some kids knew that I was a little off, but they didn't know the term right, because I definitely did stick out what's that phrase? You stick out with a four thumb.
[0:02:12] Brianne Davis: Yeah. But I do want to ask, how did your parents know at 18 months? That's so young. So what were the signs? Because I know nothing about autism. I'm so glad you reached out. I'm so glad you're coming on, because I really want to be educated and my listeners to be educated. So please, any information.
[0:02:33] Max: So I'm not 100% sure, but from what I vaguely remember, from what they've told me, I was not talking. I actually didn't learn how to speak until I was four. I was having sensory issues. And I also think that I'm not 100% certain that I wasn't really playing with other kids. Yeah, other kids around my age. So I think those were the things that I'm not 100% certain.
[0:03:11] Brianne Davis: Yeah. Because I have adhd and my mom knew from a very young age as well. I talk about it. I could not learn the alphabet, like, to save my life. And she was so frustrated. So I always felt other than right on the outside. Did you feel that way growing up?
[0:03:29] Max: Yeah, very much so. I did not really understand growing up. I didn't understand how kids communicated or I didn't really get the social and teenage jargon of how kids communicated. And because of that, I did have some brains, but I definitely felt like a bit socially isolated for my peers. This happened more so when I was like, in 3rd, fourth and fifth grade when anything horribly happened and it kind of came out of the blue, or if it was off routine of my schedule, I would just have a tetra tantrum.
[0:04:25] Brianne Davis: Because you felt out of control or like, things were out of the norm for you?
[0:04:29] Max: Out of the norm, yeah. But I really like having, like, a very stringent and stoic schedule. And any time that went off of track, then it just messed with my psyche.
[0:04:51] Brianne Davis: Yeah. Do you think it was like because I love structure. Like, there's something about structure. When you have structure and what through your day and it's planned, that there's a sense of calmness and that you know what's next. So if anything deviated from that, it was, like, anxiety driven.
[0:05:11] Max: Yeah. So individuals who have autism and some others who have adhd like yourself, or even Add, like structure, and when structure is, you know, off balance or gets thrown out the window, there are diverse individuals like myself tend to really just can't handle it. As I've gotten older, I've gotten much more used to it. I've gotten a lot of behavioral therapies that have really through, like, ot, occupational therapy, speech therapy, cbt, and just joining activities that have helped my brain and my autism to get structured to everyday life. But when I was very little, like eight through twelve, it was really difficult for me.
[0:06:12] Brianne Davis: Yeah. Can you take us back to that difficulty? And I also wanted to ask, did your parents have difficulty as well? Like I said, my mom it was very hard for my mom, god bless her, I love her, but they don't teach parents how. There's no manual to how to help your child when they're struggling. So how did your parents handle it?
[0:06:36] Max: So actually, it's weird. I've never really asked my parents how they handled it.
[0:06:41] Brianne Davis: Really?
[0:06:43] Max: No.
[0:06:44] Brianne Davis: Oh, my God. Let's get them on.
[0:06:49] Max: Just some backtrack. My parents are actually divorced. They divorced when I was like, eight or nine. But even though they divorced and I think they did a fairly good job with trying to structure things and trying to keep me occupied. And both of my parents remarried, and my stepparents my step dad and step mom are really helpful and are still really helpful with me and getting acclimated to my autism. If I were to guess, I'm sure it was pretty stressful for them, especially when I was in elementary school, because they were trying to help me. And I have a younger sister who is 20 months younger than me, like two babies.
[0:07:42] Brianne Davis: They had two babies at the same time. Oh, my God. God bless your parents. That's a lot of just one baby is hard enough. When people have, like, two indictments at the same time, it's like, oh, my God, god bless you.
[0:07:55] Max: But yeah, I actually didn't understand the concept of divorce when I was nine. I just thought they were kind of doing what I considered in child's terms, like a rum springer.
[0:08:09] Brianne Davis: I don't know.
[0:08:09] Max: I just thought it was like a rum spring in my mind. I thought they were just taking a break. And it was when I was, like, ten years that I was like, that I learned the concept of divorce and whatnot. I just didn't get it. My dad moved out. Well, it helped him move things to his apartment. And I don't know, it just didn't really affect me. I don't know.
[0:08:39] Brianne Davis: Interesting.
[0:08:40] Max: I don't know why. Again, I think it was just this idea of a rum springer. Like, my dad was just taking a break and moving out the house. That was just, like, the first thing that came to mind for me. Like, at eight years old.
[0:08:54] Brianne Davis: Nine years old, right. Okay. So there's your sister, and you and your parents are separated. And then how soon after did they get remarried?
[0:09:05] Max: So my dad and my step mom got remarried when I was going into 7th grade.
[0:09:14] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:09:16] Max: My mom and stepdad met when I was in fifth grade, and they were cohabitated for a while, and they just actually got married five years ago.
[0:09:29] Brianne Davis: They waited they waited longer.
[0:09:33] Max: Yeah. My stepdad has been presently in my life since I was probably eleven.
[0:09:39] Brianne Davis: Can you tell me some of the things that you had to do differently from other kids? Just so I can, because I had to do flashcards. I had to go to tutors. It was really hard for me. I was so embarrassed on a daily basis at school. Like, I couldn't read in classes. If the teacher asked me, I'd be like, no, thank you.
[0:10:02] Max: So I had an eight until I was in 7th grade, I think. I think it was 7th. And I also had, like, academic enrichment. So that was a combination of that that just helped me with study skills and managing my homework. And I have something called executive processing. So executive processing means that when someone says something or when someone is talking, you might not be able to code all the information at a faster pace as a neuro typical person does.
[0:10:45] Brianne Davis: Right.
[0:10:46] Max: So executive processing was an issue. I would say those were, like, the big three, like, organization, executive processing, and definitely, like, managing, like, my mood from, you know, like, if anything was, like, off balance, just, like, trying to manage my mood.
[0:11:08] Brianne Davis: So what are some of those tools that you learned? Can you remember?
[0:11:15] Max: One of the things for executive processing that I guess I could say as a life saver was when I was 16. So my sophomore year, my mom is really my speech therapist had found that there was this thing that came out, and it's called the listening program. And it was like this brand new how do I say it's? This brand new technological system that helps integrate the two parts of your brain to communicate with each other.
[0:11:50] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:11:50] Max: So what was happening was before I was 16, the left and right side of my brain were not communicating with each other. And that's why I was struggling with reading. I wasn't really struggling, but it was taking me longer to understand reading passages or trying to organize my essays or even just and it also goes back to communicating with my peers. Like this listening program, I've been doing it for twelve years. It helps me communicate with my peers because there's different levels in the listening program, and it involves executive functioning, processing, and communication. And also I think there's like a part where it involves motor skills. So like motor ability. So not falling down. Yeah, and I started doing it when I was 16. Essentially what you do is that you listen to these headphones. When I got them, it was through an ipod, because this was back in 2010, and it was the structured headphones with the ipod. And you essentially listen to orchestra music. Oh yeah, you listen to orchestra music and you're listening to different instruments, but basically you're listening to different instruments at the same time.
[0:13:30] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:13:30] Max: And what it does is that it helps the two parts of your brain, your left and right brain, to communicate with one another. There's actually an app for it. So I just have the app on my phone and I listen to it through these Sony headphones that I have here.
[0:13:48] Brianne Davis: Can you share the app in case anyone yeah, if anything's resonating, let's share the app to help. What is it called?
[0:13:56] Max: It's called abt listening program. Yeah, it's an app. I'm just looking at it now. It's called the listening program. By advanced brain technologies, I believe. And I'm not 100% sure. I think it's when you start it's $35 a month.
[0:14:19] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:14:20] Max: That's what I currently pay. I think when it first came out, it was a lot more expensive because you had to get the actual kit and the ipod. I don't know if they have that anymore because technology has evolved last twelve years, but there's like an actual website for it and their headquarters are in Utah. I would 100% recommend it. I guess you could say it was a lifesaver because I've been using it for the last almost 13 years.
[0:14:53] Brianne Davis: Yeah, I would say it's an effective tool if you've been using it for 13 years. But when you just said reading comprehension, all of that literally my entire body was like, I know how that feels. So would you be in class in school? Did other kids know you are autistic? Or did they just think you had a learning disability? How did you handle that stress? Because I didn't handle it well. I really like, shut down as a human. I let my learning disability kind of run my life. But it sounds like you had such great support. So how was that for you?
[0:15:30] Max: I think in middle school and early high school, it was very difficult because I really wanted to have friends and a cohort of friends, but I didn't have that. And the other thing was, when I was in 7th grade, I moved I moved to a new town. So moving in middle school middle school is awkward in general, but moving middle school is torture.
[0:15:58] Brianne Davis: Torture.
[0:16:00] Max: It's awkwardness on top of awkwardness. So I moved at a very, I guess you could say a very bizarre time in my life. 7th, 8th and 9th grade were pretty awkward. I think the main things that really helped me were when I started running in 7th grade. And that really helped because when I was doing an extracurricular activity, I had done swimming before, but this really helped my social emotional behavior because I was doing a team sport. So I did cross country track, and I did that competitively for ten years. I did it for 7th grade until my senior year of college. So that helped me be part of.
[0:16:59] Brianne Davis: A team, be part of something other than yourself. So that would be like, if you have a child, maybe getting them into a sport that they enjoy, obviously not pushing it on them, they have to enjoy it. But that might be something, because I didn't do that. I didn't join any sports or anything.
[0:17:15] Max: Yeah, okay, so I joined a sport. I don't know how your high school was, but my high school was very competitive, and when I got to high school, I don't know, I kind of just hit the ground running. I really wanted to do well in high school for myself, so I pushed myself, probably pushed myself a little bit too hard at times. So I did track and cross country.
[0:17:47] Brianne Davis: You were overachiever.
[0:17:48] Max: Yeah, I was an overachiever.
[0:17:51] Brianne Davis: I was not. I didn't want to go to college. I didn't want to do any of that. I was, like, not interested.
[0:17:58] Max: I was hardcore over achiever. I just choir. I was in the National Honor Society. I did a couple you thrived.
[0:18:08] Brianne Davis: Maybe you should be doing this and I should be coming on, talking about the secret of my learning disability and being bullied. You thrived like, you really did.
[0:18:18] Max: Yeah, I took five AP classes. I was in the National Honor Society, people. So, yeah, to say, like, I was an overachiever was an understatement. But again, I went to a very competitive high school. Like, people in my high school went to ivy League schools in, like, Stanford and georgetown and emery, so, like, those very top niche schools, and I wanted to fit in with my peers.
[0:18:53] Brianne Davis: Well, here's the thing. It's like when you're saying that right now, it's really beautiful because you took something that made you different and you got the tools, and it sounds like your parents really supported you and got you what you needed to keep succeeding in our society is whatever you want to call it, but you really just thrived. And it almost gave you this upper hand of your unique in a beautiful way. Because I believe people with autism are learning disabilities. Our brains work differently, and there is a very beautiful thing I see now, but I still have residue of being bullied. Did you ever get bullied or no?
[0:19:34] Max: A little bit in 8th grade.
[0:19:36] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:19:38] Max: But I actually went to the guidance counselor because I was getting bullied because I was not happy. But the thing is, Brian, I did not like having autism. And I think, in a way, I was almost trying to make myself try to be neurotypical. So while I was really thriving and pushing myself, I was almost, like, trying to I was trying to push myself.
[0:20:09] Brianne Davis: Out of autism and run from it. Like, keep it a lie almost to yourself a secret almost to yourself. It's not there. It's not there. It's not there.
[0:20:19] Max: I basically was telling myself, by the time I graduated from high school, I have to be cured or get all my support out. I think it was something along the lines of, like, I can't have any more support after I graduate. These are the four years that I have to crunch down and grind and make sure that I can be independent and self sufficient by 18. But I think I took that almost a little bit too personally and literally because everyone had support services beyond high school. And, like, I wish I had known that because I don't think I would have stressed myself out or would have stretched myself in all the time, because I think I pushed myself. I'm glad that I pushed myself, but I was almost pushing myself in a way to survive.
[0:21:23] Brianne Davis: Yeah, it is, like, superhuman effort. It's like this superhuman effort. And then you get to what, graduating high school and then did you just give up all your support system? What happened?
[0:21:36] Max: When I graduated high school, I was actually kind of burnt out, to be honest.
[0:21:42] Brianne Davis: You think, jeez, I'm burnt out. While you're telling me everything you were doing. I'm like, can I take a nap? Like, I'm tired.
[0:21:50] Max: Yeah, I was definitely burnt out a little bit. But back in 2012, the expectation was to go to college.
[0:22:00] Brianne Davis: Yes, but now they say you shouldn't go to college. Just so you know, like, new studies are saying you can actually do better without college.
[0:22:08] Max: Yeah. So I wish I had taken, like, maybe a break or maybe taking a semester off just to chill out a little bit. But I was still in that go go attitude and, like, wanting to thrive. And when I got to college, even though I could utilize my support systems, I could get extra time on test, and I could take a test in a quiet room. I wasn't using that at first. And looking back on that, I kind of think I'm the biggest idiot because I was shooting myself on the phone.
[0:22:47] Brianne Davis: Yeah. No, I did too. Like, taking the sats and tests. I didn't use those extra tools I could have because I didn't want to feel different from anybody else.
[0:22:57] Max: Yeah. So when I got to college, I was trying to essentially trying to be like the typical college student that you see in TV and media, and I was shooting myself in the foot, and I'm like, I can't do this. My parents are paying a lot of money for me to go here, and I want to do well. And what made me feel more comfortable about myself when I got to college is unlike high school or even like the K through twelve system, I think how people in college tend to be a little bit more open about their vulnerabilities. So that's what I talked about in my Ted Talk was that people had these invisible letters. So for me, my invisible letter was A for autism. But I had met people, whether it was like, my track team and I was also in Greek Life or through other organizations who are going through these insecurities, and you would have never known it. So it made me feel like, less alone. And that's when I realized I had to be more authentic to myself.
[0:24:16] Brianne Davis: So what do you remember, like, the first step doing it, doing the Ted Talk? Was that like, the moment you felt a freedom from that bondage of self, or was there a moment you can remember that you're like, aha, that was like, the thing that something switched.
[0:24:34] Max: So I guess you could say, like, I started to reveal that I was autistic in little baby steps. So I reveal to my classmates I had autism in my senior year because I shared my college speech in a class. And I remember that was like, the first time that I had done that. And then I think it was around like, my sophomore year of college, that's when I started to, like, meet people. It wasn't really a specific person. It was just like different friends or acquaintances who are kind of just going through different vulnerabilities that you would have.
[0:25:16] Brianne Davis: Never life struggles, things.
[0:25:18] Max: Yeah, and that's what made me reveal my own insecurities and what I had gone through.
[0:25:27] Brianne Davis: Here's my question, though. Did you have any backlash? Did anybody ever make you feel bad? Or was it just this warm, like, we accept you for who you are?
[0:25:41] Max: Everyone was accepting. I had one teammates, and I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about this. He just did not like me for personal reasons and essentially was trying to bully me. But that's just like another therapy session, you know?
[0:26:02] Brianne Davis: I love a good therapy session. Come on. No, but that's what I'm trying to teach my son what you just said. I said not everybody's going to like you and you're never going to understand why some people are just not going to like you.
[0:26:14] Max: Yeah, at that point, I just didn't care and I didn't need permission for him to like me. But, yeah, I felt very welcome and it helped me succeed in college and I eventually did very well. I got this very prestigious award my senior year that was only given to, like, I think, 20 students. I went to graduate school and got a master's in higher ed, and currently my background is in research and evaluation. That's what I do for my current career.
[0:26:55] Brianne Davis: Wow. You're still an overachiever, but that's a beautiful thing. It's like your autism didn't slow you down. It probably even made you even have more life experiences and learn more things in a different way. And you're actually making me proud that I have, like, a learning disability because for so long I kept it such a secret and I was in so much shame for sure.
[0:27:20] Max: No neuro diverse people. They are like their own little what's the word? Their own little creature happened. You're an actor and you're starting this podcast. You have so much to be grateful for.
[0:27:36] Brianne Davis: I know when I wrote a book and it was best seller and I was like, oh, my God, I did that. I built to this day, and I did that. What? Do you ever have those moments where you're like, I did that, like your Ted Talk where you're like, I did that. Well, thank you so much for coming on, but I do have a couple more questions before if there's any parents out there or anybody that's like, oh, my God, this is hitting a core of something going on with my child or even with myself. What would be your first advice for them?
[0:28:09] Max: Don't freak out.
[0:28:12] Brianne Davis: Don't go into panic.
[0:28:14] Max: Don't freak out. I think my best well, the one thing I would recommend is looking into the listening program. I mean, like, to say that was a lifesavers and understatement. Okay. Get your child involved in extracurricular activities. Obviously, they have to enjoy it. If they're not enjoying it, then you don't want to push them too hard because then they're going to get acclimated, like you said, into doing something outside of themselves internally.
[0:28:51] Brianne Davis: Well, thank you. And we will link that learning app and learning program below so people can go to it and see what it is and all that. Is there anything else you want the listeners to know about your journey, about releasing yourself of the secret and baby steps throughout the years? Is there any closing words you want to say?
[0:29:12] Max: I just want to say thank you to my family and friends who believed in me when there were times I didn't believe in myself.
[0:29:21] Brianne Davis: That makes me want to cry. Where can people find you if they have any questions or anything.
[0:29:27] Max: Yeah, so they can email me. My email is Maxorden korten, 26, at@gmail.com. I would also say for people, because there's also been a growing trend of adults being diagnosed with autism. There's a LinkedIn group that I follow. It's called Non neurodivergent. I think that's the name of it.
[0:29:55] Brianne Davis: Okay.
[0:29:55] Max: But it's for professionals who are neuro divergent, and just trying to navigate the workforce really helps me because when I started working, I really didn't know any other nerdive, urgent individuals in the workforce.
[0:30:14] Brianne Davis: Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for coming on.
[0:30:19] Max: Thank you, Brian.
[0:30:20] Brianne Davis: If you want to be on the show, please email me at secretlifepodcast@icloud.com. Until next time, thanks again for listening to the show. Please subscribe rate share or send me a note at secretlifepodcast.com. And if you'd like to check out my book, head over to secretlifenovel.com or Amazon to pick up a copy for yourself or someone you love. Thanks again. See you soon.
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