In this episode, regional engagement lead Matthew is joined by social workers Lisa and Louise, who share their experiences of engaging with CPD, and how they’ve involved peers and people with lived experience to reflect and inform their practice.

They discuss what CPD means to them, the importance of feedback, and the impact that CPD has had on their quality of practice as social workers.

Join the conversation using #ThisIsSocialWorkPod on our website and follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Matthew

Welcome to This Is Social Work. I'm Matthew, Social Work England's regional engagement lead for the North West of England.

In this series we're focusing on the professional standards – the 6 standards that social workers must know, understand and be able to do as part of their role. The professional standards are specialist to the social work profession and apply to social workers in all roles and settings across England.

In this episode we're focusing on standard 4, maintain my continuing professional development. We're joined by social workers Lisa and Louise who share their experiences of engaging with CPD and how they've involved peers and people with lived experience to reflect and inform their practice. We discuss what CPD means, the importance of feedback and the impact that CPD has had on the quality of their practice as social workers.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

So I'm really pleased to welcome our guests today. I'm going to hand over to both of them to introduce themselves so Lisa, could you just spend a little bit of time introducing yourself and your role and your background and things like that.

Lisa

Yes hi, hi Matthew, thanks. My name's Lisa Fjaelberg, I'm the practice lead for adult social care in Stockport. I've been in this post since February this year so it's still quite early days really, and this is my first non-operational post. I qualified in 2000, so almost 21 years ago which makes me feel very old. My first, my first qualified post was in the London borough of Newham and then I moved up North to Manchester, Rochdale and now in Stockport so yeah, so I’m an AMHP as well for 10 years, just over 10 years and a best interests assessor as well, and practice educator but I haven't acted in that role for a little while now, yeah so, that's a little bit about me really.

Matthew

Thanks Lisa, really appreciate that. Louise, could you do the same, just a bit of an introduction and where you've come from.

Louise

Yes, so my name is Louise Ijelekhai, I’m a social worker from the London borough of Bexley and I work within children's social care. Prior to me working as a social worker, I’ve worked as a support worker for a residential setting which supports homeless families. Prior to that, I also worked within a children's activity camp called Camp Vermont and I enjoyed doing lots of activities with the children. I also was a nursery practitioner for a couple of months as well. I’ve also done volunteering work for people that suffer from brain injuries.

Matthew

Thanks Louise. I'll maybe just give a bit of an introduction as to my background. So, my background is in adult services, primarily in learning disability. So, my role prior to coming to Social Work England was within a local authority. So, we're really pleased to have some guests today, really pleased to have guests from frontline practice. I think it's really important that we have these conversations with people who can bring in different experiences, so it's good to have a good mix of experience and coming from different backgrounds as well. So, today's podcast is focused on standard 4. Standard 4 is CPD, so continuing professional development. For us at Social Work England, we've put a real emphasis on CPD and we've put a lot of focus on CPD. It isn’t new for social workers, it's been a feature of social work really ever since it's been a regulated profession formally, but I think social workers continually learning and continually developing themselves has been a requirement of social work practice for much longer than it just been a regulated profession. For us it really supports us to achieve our overall aims as an organisation, so feeds into the organisation around public protection so that is the primary focus of Social Work England as a regulator but we also want to improve standards in social work and improve public confidence in social work as well.

So the direction that we've taken in relation to CPD and the requirements that are placed on social workers in relation to their CPD really supports us as an organisation to achieve all those things that we’ve set out to do. As I say it's not new for social work, it has been a requirement thinking back to when social work was regulated with the GSCC and then into HCPC there has been a CPD element to those to, those registrations.

For us we describe CPD as reflection and the learning activities that social workers undertake throughout their career and to maintain and improve their practice in whatever role they've got, so that could be adults, in children's, that could be in private, voluntary and independent sector. Social workers have a breadth of roles and there's a CPD requirement for all the social workers. So we, when we took over the regulation of social workers on the 2 December 2019, we changed the requirement in relation to CPD so there was, there's all, there was always been a requirement for social workers to record the CPD but we at Social Work England required social workers to record their CPD in a standardised way, all in their online accounts – that was a big change, that was a big switch for social workers.

We've now gone through that first renewal cycle so all social workers have done that and are now actively engaging with their online account and using it to upload CPD. We also reviewed 2.5% of those accounts, and we can talk about some of that a little bit later. What we have been really keen in our messaging around CPD, and this has formed a big part of my role as an engagement lead over the last 2 years nearly, yeah, 2 years now, is really engaging with social workers around what that requirement means, and what we've been really keen to get across is that CPD isn't a specified number of days, it isn't a specified number of hours and the type of CPD, we really want social workers to have the flexibility with, and the creativity to understand what CPD means to them and what they can get the most out of, so we haven't specified that, and we know that CPD can mean training courses so that's sort of, more conventional type of training but also there's lots of other things that social workers get really good value out of in terms of their development and for us, there's a real focus on the impact that whatever that activity is, what impact is that having on social workers practice.

I'm going to come to Lisa just to try and get your view Lisa really on, from your own perspective I suppose, what CPD is to you and what it means now that Social Work England's the regulator and the requirements have maybe changed a little bit?

Lisa

Yeah so you know, I've been, as I've said, a social worker for a long time now so I’ve seen the changes throughout the years really and I think for me, CPD has been about you know, it's as much as it's learning about ourselves and about situations, for me it's about understanding some of that and as you say, reflecting on that and what you know, what difference that will make to your practice going forward. in terms of the, the hours or the days I think that can be you know, I think initially it was a little bit, probably a bit confusing really, a little bit you know you, I wonder if you, if you're capturing the right stuff or you know, you're doing enough of it and I think certainly in comparison to my AMHP role where I am required to do a certain amount of hours per year, it's 18 hours per year you know, so that does feel very free in comparison really, and I think that's a good thing – it allows you to be quite creative with that really I think and I think over the last year particularly you know, just you know, just your first year, I think that creativity is really if you, if you've found it and if you've been allowed, you know, allowed yourself to look at it in that way really, I think it's kind of come from nowhere. There's a multitude, I think, of CPD opportunities out there.

Matthew

And I think the last year is a perfect example isn't it, where there were perhaps, training courses weren't available, whether particularly in that classroom-based type training course, so I think that shift to a much more flexible way of thinking, creative way of thinking, was kind of forced a little bit by the pandemic and I think we really, really wanted to encourage that and encourage that flexibility and creativity I suppose.

Lisa

Yeah, no, absolutely I agree with you and I think people have you know, found different platforms so whether that's you know, social media I think plays quite a big role for me anyway, particularly Twitter I think is my kind of, work-related stuff. I think it's great for kind of, bite-sized pieces of information that you can go and read and listen to or watch and then, and then reflect on and so in some respects, I think it would be, it's quite easy to find you know, one piece of CPD that you can then reflect on, it's just about I think people embracing those opportunities when they come around really.

Matthew

And I think, so some of it for us is around people understanding, understanding that they've got that flexibility and that they've got that creativity I think that has been key in in the messages that we've been trying to get over the last year, particularly that first renewal cycle, that we want social workers to think in that way and and to be able to decide for themselves really, what works for them and what platform that might come from or what form that comes in is, is entirely up to yourselves.

Thank you. Louise, could you come in at that point and just sort of, from your perspective around what CPD means to you and how that has felt for you in the last sort of, particularly in that last renewal cycle?

Louise

Yep, so similar to what Lisa said really and CPD means just reflecting upon my professional development, looking at things within my practice that I’ve done well, things that I haven't done so well and ways in which I can make changes to become a better practitioner.

I think coming from a more you know, a children's social care perspective and looking at when I do write my assessments or when I do do home visits, exploring you know, ways in which I’ve spoken you know, to a particular client and looking at ways in which I can maybe alter my tone of voice or a particular piece of knowledge that I drew upon, it's just really about making myself a better practitioner for the people I work with and I think during the whole pandemic, I think everyone has felt a bit of like you know, uneasiness in terms of their practice and how can we continue to develop as practitioners but I would say having online learning has really helped to still be able to build my knowledge base.

Initially it was quite nerve-wracking being online and having break out rooms on Microsoft Teams but I think I’ve been able to adjust to it quite well and again, it's quite convenient, you're in your home, you're learning, you don't have to get up in the morning and kind of go to a different building to have training, so it definitely does have its perks but equally it has been quite challenging in not being in that kind of environment where you are with people, when you're asking questions in a normal environment, where you know, that the assessor’s there talking to you. It has been yeah, it's been good but also been quite challenging too.

Matthew

Yeah, and I think that that shift in online delivery of training and things like that I think was obviously sped up by the pandemic, wasn't it? I think everything shifted online really, really quickly. I think there has been that adjustment. I miss being in a room with people and being able to have conversations face to face and as you said, being able to work with social workers on a sort of, more joint approach has perhaps not been possible over the last, over the last 12 months and I think that's taken a real shift but that in itself is, as I think a lot of social workers have reflected on that, haven't they, and that that has formed a big part of social worker CPD, just that self-reflection over the last 12, 18 months as to what was going on.

Lisa, has that felt the same for you?

Lisa

Absolutely, absolutely, I mean I’ve only been in this post since, since February so before that and throughout the pandemic, I was a team manager on a, on an adult's neighborhood team so an area team and yes absolutely, the kind of, the feeling from when you first you know, get told that you need to go and work from home and that kind of throws up in, you know, it throws into the air all of that ‘well how do I do my job? How do I do my job when I’m not sat with my peers, when I’m not sat with people, and I can't go out and visit people?’ you know, kind of routinely and have the kind of face-to-face dialogue with other professionals that you may work with and I think that that's, for some people that's been, it's been I think, it's been scary.

We've seen practice you know, good practice ,we've seen lots of good practice I think and I’m not just talking you know, social work here – I think across the board. I think fundamentally that people have done what they can and I think people have been trying to do the best that they can given the situation, and have done really good work overall but I don't know that people necessarily have always found the time to reflect on that I think sometimes, and that for me was one of the big challenges really, that kind of, that juggling act between providing social work input, if you like, and intervention with adults and quite honestly, just getting through the day, getting through the week and living in that way really, going from week to week and doing the best that you can, but I think for some people yeah, absolutely I think the you know, the CPD element of that has I think been an ask that perhaps you know, has not come as easily for some people if I’m honest either.

Matthew

Yeah and, and I think that's that we've seen, that you're not the first person that's said that Lisa and I think we've, we've seen that in, we commissioned some research so YouGov completed some research on our behalf and spoke specifically to social workers about CPD. So there was 504 social workers spoken to and that took a few different forms. There was 2 online focus groups, there was one-to-one interviews, but also looking at some anonymised CPD records as well and part of some of that was, 60 of those people said that not having enough time was a real barrier to CPD and I think we absolutely recognise that and particularly during the pandemic, I think the crisis that social workers were having to manage, the change that social workers are having to manage and just that shift to working from home that we've talked about, I think time has become, is, it has always been a factor for social workers, time and workload and one will always be a factor, but I think the last 12 months and, as you said Lisa, our first year of being a regulator, that was, that was a, there was a lot going on, wasn't there? It was a big issue.

Lisa

Absolutely, absolutely, you're right. I think workload and time will always and have always been factors but this was something else, wasn't it really? This was something else and you know, people's work life, home life combined you know, there was hard to find the line between the 2 sometimes, you know? People were homeschooling and you know, or you know I just think it was very difficult and I think as a profession, we've done, I think we've done remarkably well on the whole at you know, upholding the rights of people where we've been able to do that and where we've known about that and in the way that we can really. But yeah, the guidance you know, guidance changed frequently you know it was one way and then maybe overnight sometimes it felt it was another way so yeah, a kind of moving feat really.

Matthew

Yeah absolutely. Have you felt that Louise? And you're, and still in your frontline role, have you felt that through the last 12 months?

Louise

Yeah, I would say that in terms of working from home I found that I work for longer hours ironically so you know, my screen time has been increased quite a lot and you know, it does affect in terms of time that you do have to dedicate to CPD if you are spending longer doing case notes or you know, doing your video calls and stuff it means that the time to do CPD is less and less than we spend doing screen time, so it has had its, you know, its difficulties but I think what's helped me is just having a day or an afternoon where I dedicate just to do my CPD and I switch off my emails, I switch off my work phone, I think ‘I’m going to stop and just reflect now’ because I think within social work you can just kind of get lost in the, the tons and tons of case of case notes and assessments you have to do so you know, giving yourself that protected time where you can has been quite beneficial for me.

Matthew

And I think that is really important, and there's a role for employers there and Lisa, I’ll come back to you because I know your role now is, is around this, around acknowledging that social workers do need that space, do need that time and the benefits of it is, is really important for both the organisation but also for the individual social worker as well.

Lisa

Yeah, no absolutely, absolutely, and I think in this role that is one thing, this is a, this is a new role so there hasn't been anyone in it before so it's been a lot about you know, finding feet, finding you know ways to support people but there is a balance you know, as well I think you know, we want to drive up you know, the practice, we want to make sure that people are you know, completing CPD, that they have the time you know, I’d like to look at you know, other mechanisms really with, about social work forums, whether that's you know, peer support, the teams already do peer support but you know, maybe learning circles, lunch and learn sessions, all of that kind of stuff but you know, as Louise has said already you know, as a frontline practitioner I think in some respects that feels a little bit like a luxury, and I think it's an essential luxury personally. I think you know, we can't do a good job unless we're making sure that we are you know, fit to practise but, and that we have time and space to reflect and think and also often you don't even have time to think, you don't even have time to think before one task to the next one, so I think it's really important but I think it's definitely a balancing act between recognising what the frontline pressures are and what people are going through.

Matthew

There is a balance and I think we're keen, all the region engagement leads, are keen to work with employers around that and to ensure that the social workers are supported to meet the requirements of the regulator but yeah, understanding that context and I think all the region engagement leads, our social workers come from different backgrounds in terms of social work but I think having that understanding around, around what the demands are on frontline social workers I think is really important in shaping the offer to social workers and that CPD offer. But yeah, there's absolutely work to do I think to try and get that right and we've seen an interesting sort of, particularly you Louise, talking about sort of online learning we're seeing as part of that YouGov research, that 76% recorded CPD based on online learning and I just don't think we would have seen that pre-pandemic, I just think that online has always been a feature for myself and I’ve always used different resources around online learning and e-learning sort of, started to become more of a feature with my previous employer but I think that feels really high.

I don't know, I don't know what, Louise you think about that and Lisa, I think that definitely feels different.

Louise

I agree, it's very high. Yeah I think initially before the whole lockdown situation came last year, most of my training was done face-to-face in you know, like a proper room with you know, the person that would teach, and you had, you know your peers with you but you know, lockdown did force us to have to change and to try different ways, that really was quite beneficial to our learning and there was challenges at the beginning with connection and the PowerPoints not really being on Microsoft Teams or people being on mute and you're thinking ‘I can't hear you anymore’ and so you know, it did have its funny challenges but yeah, we did it as a profession and the fact that people you know, got so much learning out of it given the stats that you read out, it shows that you know online learning does have quite profound effects on our practice, so it's positive.

Matthew

Yeah, and I suppose it comes back to what you were saying earlier around now trying to figure out what that offer can look like and how best that can support frontline practitioners so is it like, longer online training courses, those short lunch and learn type things, there's lots of different ways of doing it isn't there, but I think just trying to figure out some of that is really important.

Lisa

Absolutely you know, I think I agree Louise you know it was all, and Mathew, it was all kind of you know, it was all in you know, as Louise said, in a proper room you know it was, and I think some people didn't consider it you know, CPD if it wasn't you know, a face-to-face you know, session, a day, whatever that looked like, whatever it was on. I think people valued e-learning or online learning less if I’m honest and I think that, I think that that's definitely catapulted us into the more of an online way of being and more of a kind of, a flexible way of being and maybe some of the you know, the ways that we work generally you know, going forward you know, maybe that will, some of that will stick I think.

Matthew

Yeah and there's some good to come from it isn't there, I think people's learning styles are different as well don't, aren’t they and I know that I’ve typically always struggled with that sort of classroom day, sit in a room listening to someone talk for 8 hours, I've always typically struggled with that and you can, you can imagine how amazing I was at university, in school, but  I learned much better by myself and sort of spending time reflecting and reading. I get a lot from podcasts ironically, I’m sitting here recording one, but I get a lot from that, I get a lot from learning in that way where I can spend my own time doing things but, so the online way really fits for me, but I know different learning styles benefit from different ways too don’t they and I think there's that sort of multitude in terms of an offer I think, is something that needs to be considered, isn't it?

Lisa

I think so, I think so definitely and I think you know, a mechanism that allows discussion as well you know you know, getting together whether it's the breakout room, whether it's in a corner of a proper room, you know whether that you know, whatever that looks like I think that needs, that's how we learn a lot of it you know, whether it's online, whether it's podcast, but it has to be an element I think for me, of reflecting with other people you know, on situations and how you can do it differently, and I think I get a lot from those sorts of discussions around you know, around practice and about you know, scenarios and I think you know, you, there are elements of that that you can't really replicate online or on, in a podcast or a webinar you know something like that that's not interactive.

Matthew

Yeah, I know, I mean I would agree. I mean my wife's a social worker so we often have those discussions, we don't always just talk about social work, but that is always someone who I’ve had reflective conversations with and it works both, both ways for us, I think is or has often been a feature for our, throughout our careers particularly now I’ve moved away from frontline practice, but we as regional engagement leads always try and have, we have sort of monthly, sometimes fortnightly, just reflective discussions about practice, what is going on in social work practice, and we all really benefit from them.

Reassuringly in the research 83% of social workers said that they see the value in CPD which I think just for me reiterates the point that CPD isn't new for social workers, this isn't something certainly that Social Work England has introduced, it's always been a feature of social work practice and social workers understand the importance, understand the meaning of it but also understand what it gives them as individual practitioners, and I think you've both touched on what it means to yourselves but I think it's, social workers know why they need to do CPD and I think that that is true, they're in that. in that.

Number 4.1 is one of the elements of the CPD standard that we get asked a lot about so 4.1 is ‘incorporating feedback from a range of different sources including people with different experience of social work’. We often get asked a lot of questions of ‘how do I do that, how does that need to look?’ and what, why is that important and that can particularly come from people that maybe aren't in frontline roles, how do they do that in that specific role.

Louise, what's your sort of thoughts on getting feedback, is that, is that a feature of your practice, is it, is it important in your learning and development?

Louise

Yeah I would say feedback is really important you know, it's about obtaining a person's views about how they found your practice, so it could be like a meeting or a report I’ve written or a home visit and you know, I think having that conversation with a colleague or with a parent about how they found your work can really help to unpick any weaknesses I have and can pick the strengths I have, and ways in which I can actually improve my work with people and I personally find that doing the more informal feedback is what I do often to be honest, so normally after a meeting I would ask the parents how do they find it you know, what are their views on that and just those little conversations that you may not think is feedback, it is feedback you know? They're letting you know how they found your work and how they found you chairing that meeting.

You know, I've through doing my ASYE a few years ago, feedback was quite a heavy feature to have and I think now that we've got that within the CPD framework, it just helps to ensure that practitioners are developing and growing as they develop in their career.

Matthew

Yeah and I think your point about it not having to be this really formalised way of getting feedback, I mean that isn't the ask that, there isn't a requirement from Social Work England to upload a formal piece of feedback that you've got from somebody that you're working with, upload that to your Social Work England account and reflect on it, you can do that absolutely but that isn't the ask. The, you’re right, feedback can come in many different ways from many different sources and in many different forms, and I think sometimes those little comments that have been made to you verbally or over an email or something like that can have a real impact and can really prompt some good valuable reflection and learning, and I think that's the kind of things that we want social workers to capture and I think that that informal stuff can often have real value.

Lisa, do you want to come in at that point around feedback?

Lisa

Yeah I think, I think it's something that you know, if in, when you're doing your social work training or when you're doing your ASYE, I think that's very structured, it's there, but I think when you haven't been through you know, for some of us we didn't have an ASYE you know, programme in place so since I, you know, since I was on placement, I haven't had a direct observation in a formal way like that obviously you know, but, and I think it depends a lot on you know what sort of team you're on, whether you go out with your teammates, you know, whether you take a manager out with you, you know, but I think, I think that Louise is right, it is about the, sometimes the small stuff you know, sometimes about the you know, it's about, maybe a, you know just tid bits really about you know, you could have done this a bit better, you could have done that a bit better, it's on emails it's, you know, it's face to face, it's on the telephone but I think what we're not very good at doing is doing it routinely.

I don't think we're in practice of doing it as a kind of standard approach throughout really. I think generally you know, we hear about the bad stuff, we hear about the stuff that we haven't done so well or that you know, we have to talk to somebody about something that they haven't done so well but I think we need to be better at routinely saying ‘that was a really good piece of work’ or you know, ‘you did really well in that that meeting that was really difficult, you handled that really well’ what you know, what, whatever that looks like, I think absolutely we need to, we need to take advantage of those opportunities so it becomes the norm I think.

So for some people you know, going out on a visit feels like a direct observation even, when it's not in the same way you know and I've had people say to me ‘what do you want to come out with me for?’… [laugh]

Louise

They get a bit nervous!

Lisa

…Because I do because exactly, ‘what's your hidden agenda?’ and I'm like ‘but I just want to come out with people’ because hey, it's good to get out and meet people, it's good to get out and see, you know, that you know, that I can see you know, when I was a team manager and an assistant team manager on a few different teams so you know, I want to be able to say hand on heart I know that this, this person practices in this way, I have seen it with my own eyes and I think that's really difficult to replicate if we're not making this an ordinary event really. The people, it makes people a bit suspicious, doesn't it, I think.

Matthew

Yeah, and I think that the word suspicion is probably right, isn't it? I think that there can often be that in trying to support social workers in this way, that and that it's not, it's not all negative and there's, there might be some constructive feedback, which is fantastic and can really be built upon, but there'll be lots of positives as well and I think having that discussion, and maybe that comes in a formal supervision or whatever way that comes about, I think can really offer something to that social worker in their, in their development.

Lisa

Absolutely and vice versa, you know, when you were chairing a meeting ‘oh, how did I do?’ you know, ‘what did people think?’ you know. It’s not very often you get it you know, I think that would be a good thing you know both ways really.

Matthew

Yeah, and I mean, you talked about being a practice educator, practice assessor Lisa and I think that was, I was a practice educator when in my previous role and I think I always got a lot out of that for myself in terms of my own development and learning, I think you would probably get a lot more feedback in that process wouldn't you, if you were supporting an ASYE or a student, and I think that always felt really beneficial to me as a social worker and that was always something I really enjoyed doing.

Lisa

Definitely, definitely – I think it helps keep you current, helps keep you aware of what the issues are and how you come across because we can all get a little bit you know, staler you know and we need, we need to keep that current don't we, and I think you know, we need to be responsible for our own practice but sometimes we need a hand with that as well.

Matthew

Yeah and, and I think sometimes the only way you know, that is through feedback isn't it and I think that, that honest feedback is sometimes the only way that you'll be able to pick up on that.

Lisa

Absolutely and to have that honest dialogue.

Louise

Throughout the first lockdown, I found that just getting like random feedback from people like sometimes like a someone might email me saying ‘Louise, you shared this really difficult meeting quite well’ and it makes you feel as if I am doing good, like I, you know, like even though we've been in a really difficult situation with the lockdown and you know, struggling to really meaningfully safeguard children, just getting those little emails and little comments here and there, it just boosts up your kind of, self-esteem and how you feel about being a practitioner so I do think we do need to do a lot more with you know, encouraging people when giving people feedback when they may not expect it, because those little things really mean a lot to practitioners I feel.

Matthew

Yeah and then I think the key then is then how that individual practitioner that, then sort of reflects on that and maybe takes that away and spends more time thinking about it and considering what needs to change, what needs to happen, what need what they can embed, if it was positive how they can do that more, and I think that reflection bit is really important and I think that forms a real big part of the requirement for social workers with this, with the CPD, and I think reflection’s always, social workers understand what reflection is but I think again it can be a time issue.

Louise, do you think there's any other barriers to social workers sort of, spending that time reflecting and then using that as a CPD upload to their Social Work England Account?

Louise

I think finding the time, I know we've spoken about it already but it can be tricky, especially you know, in children's social care we you know, sometimes if an emergency comes in, you're running out to support that family or you're in court the next day you know, it can be, every day is different and I think finding that time to dedicate to doing CPD can be quite tricky.

I think for me that's been one of my barriers I’ve had but I think just having that dedicated time where you say ‘no, this afternoon I’m going to dedicate to this’. Switching off my devices has helped me but I know a lot of practitioners have had other barriers, like not really understanding what to put in their CPD or not knowing how to reflect upon a particular like, training or interaction that they've had, but I think having things like this like a podcast can, you know, really help people to understand ‘oh, maybe that's what I can use for next time’.

Matthew

Thank you. Lisa, is anything you want to come in on that?

Lisa

Yeah, I was just going to say that the sort of inbuilt mechanisms you know that I would, you know, you're driving to work or you're driving in between visits or you're walking to the meeting room, you know, and they're all thinking times aren't they, and I think going back to what we were saying earlier about you know, our working day is feeling very different. You know, you're working at home primarily for a lot of people they're kind of, there's not those natural breaks in your day that you would use or I would use you know, to think about either the visit that's coming up or the meeting that I’ve just been in, whatever that was, you think about it you kind of, you mull it over in your mind don't you, you reflect on it and those have, those have kind of disappeared and instead of those now you have additional phone calls or team meetings or you know Teams meetings or you know, however you do it in the areas that you work and all too often I think the days get blocked up.

I think what we need to do is set some time aside for us and for our teams to be able to do that. I think that you know, where I work so we have an hour and we try and say to people you know, encourage people to take, there's an hour and a half a month, which doesn't sound like a lot in additional to training et cetera you know, but for people to reflect and to take that time to write up a reflective piece or to do some CPD, and I think again it's time but I think we have to try and prioritise that as well, as best as we can and support people to do that.

Matthew

Yeah, and I think that the travel times are a really important point to recognise that that has shifted hugely hasn't it, over the last 12 months and I, I've always had to travel a lot. I’ve previously worked in Cumbria, it’s a huge county and getting anywhere, it takes a long time and I benefited a lot from that sometimes, just that reflection after a visit or after the meeting. I got a lot of benefit from that but then in this role, spending a lot of time traveling around the North West, that was where I listened to all my podcasts absolutely, I could spend time, I would, headphones on, I could just focus on that and then for me that was learning, that was development, that was CPD and I think I would then reflect on what that was and what that meant for my role, and all those kind of things but lockdown happened, that disappeared and I’m terrible at giving myself time through the day, I’m really bad at it, but I try to carve out a little bit of time and I try and again, headphones on or sometimes just go for a walk, I can just get out the house and learn and then come back and then that's a piece of CPD for me, but I think it's sometimes just that conscious effort isn't it, that conscious switch, that mindset of ‘I'm going to do this because it's really important to do it’ and carve out that separate time, like you've both said.

Do you think there's, what ways can yourselves both in your own rolls but also Social Work England, encourage social workers to think creatively about CPD, to have these different ideas about what it can be and what it means and have that flexibility, is there, is there ways that we can all do that do you think? Louise?

Louise

Yeah, a way in which Social Work England could like help social workers to you know, do CPD and think more creative could be I think, I don't know if you can do this but having you know, regional leads that could maybe come out to staff conferences and I know within my local authority we have a soft conference at least 3 to 4 times a year where the whole children's social care is in one forum and we're basically talking about different things within social work. I think it would be quite good, if you could come to those conferences and maybe talk about CPD, give