Clergy Wellbeing Down Under

Valerie Ling

Welcome to the official first podcast of the Centre for Effective Serving, a research and consulting organisation focused on vocational wellbeing, burnout prevention, and training.  This season we are focussing on Clergy Wellbeing Down Under.

In today's fast-paced and demanding world, support for those who serve by leadership is more crucial than ever. However, the pressures and challenges that come with leadership roles can often lead to burnout and exhaustion, both mentally and physically. At the Centre for Effective Serving, we understand the significance of addressing these issues head-on to create a healthier and more productive leadership landscape.

In each episode  we delve into the latest research and resources developed by our team of experts, who are dedicated to enhancing leadership wellbeing and fostering a supportive environment for leaders to thrive. Our podcast provides valuable insights, evidence-based strategies, and practical tips to help leaders maintain their well-being, improve their resilience, and prevent burnout.

Join us as we bring on renowned experts in the fields of psychology, mental health, leadership, and well-being to share their knowledge and experiences. Through candid interviews and engaging discussions, we explore various topics, including stress management techniques, emotional intelligence, work-life integration, team building, and much more.


Stay up-to-date with the latest trends in leadership well-being and burnout prevention by subscribing today.

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Religion & SpiritualityReligion & Spirituality

Episodes

A Conversation with Christopher Ash Author Zeal Without Burnout
Dec 5 2023
A Conversation with Christopher Ash Author Zeal Without Burnout
What a joy and privilege to finish our very first season of the podcast with  Christopher Ash -  author of Zeal Without Burnout and The Book Your Pastor Wishes You Would Read But Is Too Embarrassed To Ask. Christopher shares his own journey through burnout and what led to his publications in this area.Christopher shares his personal pearls of wisdom for pastors: the importance of grounding motivation in the promises of the Lord rather than worldly metrics of success, combatting loneliness with long-term friendships, and cultivating a nourishing relationship with God. So join us, and gain a deeper understanding of the highs and lows of pastoral life and the resilience, faith, and grace required to navigate them.Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Leadership through the Lens of Indigenous Values with Jay Matenga
Nov 29 2023
Leadership through the Lens of Indigenous Values with Jay Matenga
As our season draws to a close, I began to contemplate leadership in a wider context, beyond just Australia and parish settings, I was drawn to explore international issues of leadership in gospel work. Jay Matenga, is Director of the Global Witness Dept. and the Mission Commission for the World Evangelical Alliance and Executive Officer for Missions Interlink NZ. Jay Matenga, was raised with indigenous values in a predominantly Eurocentric society. Our conversation will explore Jay’s leadership  journey in the missions space, particularly Jay's approach as a narrative leader who underscores the importance of storytelling in spiritual connection and guidance. We look at the aspects of collective leadership, the importance of mentorship, and the adaptability ingrained in indigenous leadership styles.Leaders today grapple with managing expectations and avoiding burnout, a challenge amplified in Christian leadership where echo chambers can be pervasive. We underscore the necessity of resilience, self-awareness, and the ability to identify when to step back. Jay offers insights into leadership accountability and the shift from performance metrics to a focus on values and overall well-being.Join us to gain a deeper understanding of leadership, the role of missions, and the journey of self-authenticity amid diverse cultural landscapes.Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Families On Mission: A Conversation with Author and Global Mission Consultant Marion Knell
Nov 22 2023
Families On Mission: A Conversation with Author and Global Mission Consultant Marion Knell
As our season draws to a close, I began to contemplate leadership in a wider context, beyond just Australia and parish settings, I was drawn to explore international issues of leadership in gospel work. Marion Knell is a seasoned cross-cultural consultant and trainer with an extensive history spanning nearly three decades. Her expertise stretches across a multitude of sectors, but at its core, Marion's passion lies in fostering resilience and longevity in the lives of cross-cultural workers and their families.Having worked extensively with families overseas,  Marion has garnered a wealth of experience and understanding in preparing adults and children for international assignments. This preparation is not just about the outward journey but also assisting them in their return, ensuring a smooth transition and debriefing experience.Currently, Marion's work involves delivering  training to refugee workers in areas of trauma response, the cultural nuances of dislocation, and overall staff care. Marion is also the author of Burn Up Splash Down and Families On The Move.  She has also been instrumental in establishing the MA in Member Care with Redcliffe College.In this episode, Marion discusses the complex role of church leadership, burnout and the impact on pastors' children.If you are a pastor and want to reach our for professional supervision, or counselling for yourself and/or your family, send me an email: valerie@effectiveserving.com.auDownload my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Leadership in Mission with Harry Hoffmann - Global Member Care Network
Nov 15 2023
Leadership in Mission with Harry Hoffmann - Global Member Care Network
As our season draws to a close, I began to contemplate leadership in a wider context, beyond just Australia and parish settings, I was drawn to explore international issues of leadership in gospel work.  Dive into the complexities of cross-cultural ministry with our guest, Harry Hoffman, a prominent figure in the Missions Member Care Network. With over two decades of experience in cross-cultural ministry and navigating the profound emotional impact of arrests, interrogation, and personal loss, Harry provides a unique insight into stress management, vulnerability, and resilience in ministry and mission.Harry elucidates these nuances and underscores the pivotal role of self-awareness, introspection, and the place of scripture and personal beliefs on individual growth. We delve deep into the intricate relationship between emotions and decision-making, addressing the multifaceted leadership approaches essential for guiding cross-cultural teams and understanding diverse spiritual perspectives.Our exploration further encompasses effective strategies to avert burnout in cross-cultural settings, touching on the significance of peer responsibility. The dialogue transitions to understanding the various dimensions of conflict and the therapeutic value of sharing one's struggles. Join us for a comprehensive episode that seeks to inform, inspire, and navigate the intricate facets of clergy well-being, cross-cultural ministry, international gospel work leadership dynamics, and more.Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
"Healthy Churches Aren't a Pipe Dream" with A.J. Mathieu from The Malphurs Group
Nov 1 2023
"Healthy Churches Aren't a Pipe Dream" with A.J. Mathieu from The Malphurs Group
As our season draws to a close, I began to contemplate leadership in a wider context, beyond just Australia and parish settings, I was drawn to explore international issues of leadership in gospel work. In this episode we are joined by A.J. Mathieu president of The Malphurs Group. A.J. Mathieu has over 25 years of experience as a business owner, 5 years as an elected official serving local and regional constituencies in north Texas,  and joined The Malphurs Group in 2014.  He co-hosts the Church Revitalization Podcast with Vice-President Scott Ball.   A.J. leads the Strategic Envisioning process in the United States with a limited number of churches each year but spends most of his time on TMG’s international efforts to strengthen churches and build leaders worldwide. He is an international conference speaker and has worked with church leaders in Europe, Africa, South America, and Asia.In this episode, A.J. reflects on my findings, and what he sees in the international church leadership scene.Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Advance not Retreat with Dr Chelsea Gill
Oct 25 2023
Advance not Retreat with Dr Chelsea Gill
Join Dr. Chelsea Gill from Bond Business School as we explore the topic of reflective retreats. Chelsea, with her deep insights into clergy retreats, examines the role of attention restoration theory in counteracting mental and emotional exhaustion.We discuss two core types of clergy retreats, educational and reflective, and their structures. Chelsea explains attentional fatigue common among clergy and offers solutions to restore mental energy. Our conversation dives into the elements making reflective retreats impactful, spotlighting social activities and professional development as essential for clergy wellbeing.We also discuss crafting retreats for optimal rejuvenation and share practical tips for activities and taking breaks from technology and work. The emotional benefits of retreats are pivotal for clergy to effectively serve their communities. We conclude by addressing the rhythm and emotional aspects of retreats, emphasizing the need for support in processing emotions. Tune into this episode for valuable insights on enhancing clergy wellbeing through retreats so much so you will want to Advance and not Retreat.  To contact Chelsea: chgill@bond.edu.auAre you a psychologist ready to join the team of The Centre for Effective Living?Download Dr Chelsea Gill's Retreat InfographicDownload my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
"Don't Take Us Out of The Truck!" With Jo Muirhead
Sep 27 2023
"Don't Take Us Out of The Truck!" With Jo Muirhead
**EPISODE TRIGGER WARNING**This episode contains some discussion about suicide, violence, and other potentially traumatic material. Listener discretion is strongly advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, please seek professional help or, in Australia contact Lifeline 13 11 14. Jo Muirhead is a Rehabilitation Counsellor and is the founder of Purple Co.   Purple Co facilitates workplace recovery by emphasizing the holistic integration of health, recovery, purpose and choice. In this episode, Jo relates how there are vocational hazards in the helping and serving professions that are not always evident. She relays her experience in assessing and re-designing work roles in high stress, high pressure roles, to manage burnout and psychosocial risk.  Jo shares her work riding in ambulances observing and detailing what pressures are unseen, and how revealing one statement by an ambo "Don't take us out of the truck!" relates to wellbeing in ministry. Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Death by a Thousand Paper Cuts - Psychosocial Risks in Church Leadership with Katharine Moore
Sep 20 2023
Death by a Thousand Paper Cuts - Psychosocial Risks in Church Leadership with Katharine Moore
Imagine an environment where safety and well-being are prioritized, where trust and transparency are key, and conflicts are handled in a constructive manner. These are the ingredients of psychological safety. Psychological safety refers to a work environment where individuals feel comfortable taking risks, expressing their thoughts, and making mistakes without fear of punishment or humiliation.  Psychosocial hazards are broader and pertain to all aspects of work design, organisational structures, and social dynamics that can lead to psychological or physical harm. This could include things like excessive workload, lack of role clarity, workplace bullying, and poor organisational culture. They are separate and intertwined.   Katharine Moore, an expert in workplace safety and health, joins me on the podcast to unwrap this very topic, based on findings from my clergy well-being and leadership survey.From my survey, the following experiences of offensive behaviour experienced by clergy over the past 12 months were reported:·      Sexual harassment: 6%·      Threats of and actual violence: 8%·      Bullying: 31%·      Unpleasant teasing: 27%·      Conflicts and quarrels: 78%·      Gossip and slander: 53% Clergy burnout was found to be related to the level of offensive behaviours experienced by clergy.  Through our discussion, we tackle the physical and psychological burdens of various job roles, the crucial role of job design and task rotation, and the complexities of budgets, governance, and compliance.Katharine has built a strong reputation for her excellence in Safety and Injury Management.  She believes in engaging & empowering workers to build a proactive safety culture in the workplace which will lead to greater levels of overall compliance.She works at a Senior Leadership level in a multi-national corporate where she influences business decisions  to create a workplace that is:• Safe from physical and psychological harm• Promotes whole-person wellbeing• Fully accessible & inclusive • Empowers team to meet their full potentialOur conversation delves  into the heart of church conflict and consider how a lack of transparency may foster an environment ripe for bullying. By exploring the difference between psychosocial and psychological safety, we illuminate how churches can work alongside partner practices to foster a secure environment where team members feel safe providing feedback. Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Speaking the Unspoken Experiences of Women in Ministry with Rev Dr Megan Powell du Toit
Sep 13 2023
Speaking the Unspoken Experiences of Women in Ministry with Rev Dr Megan Powell du Toit
TRIGGER WARNING: Please note that this episode discusses trauma and sexual violence which some listeners may find distressing or emotionally challenging.  In Australia, If you require support, please contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 and/or 1800RESPECT.One of the key findings in Valerie’s research was the levels of burnout and the personal violence experienced by women in ministry.  Her guest in today’s episode is Rev Dr Megan Powell du Toit – ordained Baptist minister, Publishing Manager at the Australian College of Theology and co-host of the With All Due Respect podcast.  In this candid episode,  Megan offers an intimate perspective on the myriad of challenges and biases faced by women in the ministry.  Our conversation explores the systemic issues prevalent in the religious arena, with a critical focus on the alarming underbelly of sexual assault and gender violence therein.  We explore the impact of a woman's formative history in shaping her pastoral journey. As we wrap up, we delve into the ways we can support, amplify, and uplift the voices of women in ministry. Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Emotional Awareness and the Place for Silence with Dave and Kathy Thurston
Sep 6 2023
Emotional Awareness and the Place for Silence with Dave and Kathy Thurston
Dave & Kathy Thurston have been married for over 40 years and have three grown up children. They have been in ministry in one form or another for nearly forty years. Five and a half years ago Dave and Kathy Thurston left Sydney and parish ministry to work in the Presbyterian Church of Queensland. Their brief was mentoring pastors and their wives, training other to be mentors, develop a post college training program as well as various other ventures. Six months ago, they returned to their three adult children and wider family but not to the inner west. They now live in Blackheath on two acres where God willing they will build a Christian Retreat centre. They love working with their brothers and sisters in Christian ministry to be healthy and fruitful followers of Jesus. They continue to train people to be mentors through Mentor Equipping Queensland In this episode they share their story, their journey and they deepest longings for ministry to be joyful and sustainable. They share their wisdom on how mentoring, combined with spiritual development and health, plays a critical role in ministry. The episode takes a deep look into the importance of emotional awareness, spiritual maturity, and understanding our emotions under the guidance of Jesus for effective leadership. Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Transforming the Narrative on Ministry Formation with Professor Donald Guthrie
Aug 17 2023
Transforming the Narrative on Ministry Formation with Professor Donald Guthrie
Today, we're joined by Professor Donald Guthrie.  Professor Donald Guthrie teaches at Trinity International University, and is the co-author of Resilient Ministry: What Pastors Told us about Surviving and Thriving, a book based on a five-year intensive research project on the frontlines of pastoral ministry.  In this episode, he shares with Valerie his insights on social media conflict, the dangers of isolation, what helps clergy spouses flourish, the need for spiritual and emotional formation, and the value of professional and peer support.Download my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz hereReflection Questions:Reflect on your current levels of physical, emotional, spiritual and mental health.  Which areas are most in need of restoration?Consider your attitude towards, and involvement with, social media.  Are you demonstrating a ‘winsome witness’ and ‘gospel savvy’?Who would you consider to be your closest friends?  What’s your level of connection with them?If you’re married, how would you respond to the statements: ‘I have friends’, ‘My spouse has friends’, ‘We have friends?’If you’re married, what is your spouse’s involvement with church?  How do they feel about it?What professional supports, if any, do you have in place? Are there any additional ones you’d like to arrange?  What is your response to the idea of professional counselling as a preventative measure?Do you have any ‘similar others’ in your life?  Is there anyone who could fit that role for you, and vice versa?Have you fallen into the trap of confusing your identity with your role?  How does that reveal itself?  What gospel truths might you need to preach to yourself?Podcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!
Leading Through Tough Times in Ministry with Dr Grant Bickerton
Aug 17 2023
Leading Through Tough Times in Ministry with Dr Grant Bickerton
Ever feel like you're on the brink of burnout, especially in these pandemic-ridden times? You're not alone. On today's episode, we've got the honour of hosting Dr. Grant Bickerton, who takes a deep dive into the changing landscape of Christian ministry and how it's impacting those on the front lines. We begin by exploring the unique challenges and psychological toll the pandemic has had on Christian workers, resulting in significant loss and grief that can eventually lead to burnout.We also dive into the murky waters of job satisfaction and wellbeing in ministry. Grant shares his views on isolation and loneliness among Christian workers and provides insights on why many are reluctant to admit they're considering leaving ministry. We also talk candidly about the complexities of family suffering as a driver for self-sacrificial roles in ministry and the critical need for measuring and addressing the causes of burnout.Further into the episode, we confront some tough issues such as conflict, bullying, and leadership dynamics within ministry. We examine the damaging implications of workplace conflicts and potential bullying, and delve into the importance of accepting leadership and understanding the role of personal development and self-care plans. Finally, we discuss how to best nurture and empower team members, stressing the importance of providing room for growth and risk-taking. Join us for this gripping conversation with Dr. Bickerton and learn how we can navigate through these challenging times in ministry together.Are you a ministry leader looking for a pastoral/professional supervisor?  Perhaps you are needing some counselling support? Send me an email: valerie@effectiveserving.com.auShow notes and reflection questionsDownload my research report and reflectionsWatch the video version of this podcastComplete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz herePodcast Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and do not represent the stance of any institution. The research discussed is based on an assignment completed for my Masters in Leadership and has not undergone peer review. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!