Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Scott Densmore, VP of Engineering at GitHub, to discuss the future of connected work and the impact of GitHub Copilot on developer productivity. GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, allowing them to write code faster and more efficiently. Scott shares the history of GitHub Copilot and how it has evolved to become a game-changer in the world of software development. He also talks about developer flow and happiness and explains how Copilot enhances these aspects by reducing toil and increasing productivity.  Listen as Mik and Scott discuss the potential for customization and extensibility in Copilot, allowing developers to build their agents and their skills to further enhance their workflows.   Key discussions include:  GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, increasing productivity and reducing toil. Copilot has been in development for several years, with a focus on fine-tuning the models and prompts to provide accurate and helpful suggestions across multiple programming languages. Studies have shown that developers using Copilot can complete tasks in significantly less time, leading to increased productivity and happiness. Customization is a key feature of Copilot, allowing developers to build models on top of their own code and improve the accuracy of suggestions. The introduction of chat functionality in Copilot allows developers to ask questions, get explanations of code, and even generate tests or refactorings. GitHub is working on an extensibility platform for Copilot to enhance their workflows and bring in expertise from various tools and services.  Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.  Follow Mik on X:  @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne  Additional Resources:  Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Professor Mohan Sawhney, Associate Dean of Digital Innovation and a Clinical Professor of Marketing at Northwestern University. ​ Sawhney discusses the evolution and importance of product management as a discipline. He emphasizes the need for formal training and frameworks in product management and highlights the role of product managers as mini CEOs and customer advocates. Sawhney also explores the challenges and opportunities in implementing product management in different industries, including technology companies, B2B industrial companies, and service-based organizations.  Listen as Mik and Sawhney explore the impact of generative AI on product management, and highlight its potential to enhance day-to-day tasks and improve efficiency and effectiveness Key discussions include: Understanding customer problems and exceeding customer needsThe product manager’s crucial role as orchestrator, mini CEO, and customer advocate The discipline of product management The potential for growth and adoption in various industriesExecutive sponsorship and implementing organizational structure Expansion of product management beyond tech companies to B2B and services industriesRethinking structure, incentives, and processExploring how to implement product management in organizationsHow Generative AI can improve persona development, wireframing, and roadmap optimizationAI Product management and how it is redefining efficiency for the future Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFeDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2MarTechDave West - podcast episodeScrum StudioGreenfield projectSkunkworksBimodal ITAgile Release TrainMik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin WattsJoin the Flow Framework Community

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Pallab Chatterjee, a visionary entrepreneur and technology expert. Pallab is currently the chairman of 3Lines VC, a boutique VC firm specializing in investments in AI-focused companies in the US and India. Pallab shares his journey from running a research lab at Texas Instruments to becoming the CEO of IT Technologies and Symphony Retail AI. Mik and Pallab discuss the TI-84 and TI-86 calculators, which Pallab helped bring to market, and how they revolutionized the industry. They discuss the importance of understanding waste and its impact on organizational capacity and the role of finance in driving digital transformation.  Mik and Pallab also discuss the importance of actionable visibility and the challenges of implementing predictive and prescriptive models in organizations. Key discussions include:  The story behind the Ti 84 and Ti 86 calculatorsUnderstanding waste and its impact on organizational capacity The role of finance in driving digital transformationThe role of AI and digital disruption in shaping the future of workAdvice for organizations looking to embrace digital transformationThe PDCA cycle and the importance of actionable visibilityThe challenges of implementing predictive and prescriptive models in organizationsUnderstanding waste and rework cycles in software organizationsThe need for a metadata layer to operate on an enterprise relational databaseHow organizations can avoid stagnation or falling behindThe importance of customer-centricity and quantifying pain levels Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFeDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2MarTechDave West - podcast episodeScrum StudioGreenfield projectSkunkworksBimodal ITAgile Release TrainMik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin WattsJoin the Flow Framework Community

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is technology visionary George Kadifa to discuss generative AI and its potential impact on the tech industry. George discusses how generative AI has changed the conversation with machines, allowing them to generate new content, code, images, and videos in a multi-modal fashion. This development is expected to be even bigger than all the previous tech transformations combined. George Kadifa has a long history of predicting tech trends and capitalizing on them. He believes that generative AI is set to revolutionize the scientific method by being able to comprehend complex situations with billions of parameters, which could have huge implications for medicine and other areas of science.  Mik and George also discuss how the development of deep learning has led to a shift from workflow-based software to information-based software, with the ability to create predictive and generative capabilities. Key discussions include:  The Impact of Generative AI on the Technology and Enterprise LandscapeGenerative AI and its Implications for the Creative IndustryThe Impact of AI on the Future of Technology and WorkflowsThe Potential of AI to Transform Software DevelopmentThe Benefits of Value Stream Management and AI for Improved ProductivityThe Power of Data in Generative AIWorkflow Automation and Insight-Driven Analytics on Business ProcessesThe Increase in Complexity of Software Development Interplay Between Cloud Vendors and AI Model DevelopmentThe Future of Language Modeling and Information Protection Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode: https://www.planview.com/lp/mik-plus-one/  Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Join the Flow Framework Community

In this episode of Mik + One, we’re flipping the script! Debbie Konrad, an early Value Stream Management advocate, interviews Mik. The two discuss a new report, the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report, that analyzed anonymized data from 2022 of 3600+ software delivery teams representing over 38,000 business product owners and engineers combined with 326 targeted survey respondents in 34 of the world’s leading enterprises. It revealed that five years into the shift from project to product, following the publication of Mik's seminal book on the subject, only 8 percent of sample have operationalized the product model. Debbie and Mik discuss how the report’s findings are timely and relevant, as technology leaders are under increasing pressure to match tech giants and unicorns on digital innovation and wrestle the competitive advantage from the hands of a few companies. In this episode, Mik shares how to shift the management approach in digital portfolios from a project to a product-based model. Debbie and Mik also address the importance of combining systems data with survey data in order to provide additional insights into the adoption curve of value stream management. Key discussions include:  The 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry ReportThe seven dimensions of change required for a product operating modelProduct Management MaturityInsights from the 2021 State of Value Stream Management ReportThe Journey from Product Experimentation to OperationalizationSurvey Responses and System Data on Product Operating Model TransformationsAutonomy and Dependencies for High Performance TeamsThe Benefits of Value Management for Software Development TeamsImplementing Build and Run Teams for Software at ScaleThe Importance of Backlog Management and Prioritization in Product ManagementCreating an Effective Product Management Function: Strategies for SuccessExploring the Benefits of Flow Metrics for Improved Efficiency and Time to Market Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.planview.com Additional Resources: Download the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report and connect with DebbiePortfolio SAFeDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2MarTechDave West - podcast episode Learn more and join the Flow Framework Community hereFor more information on the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report, go here: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/mik-kersten-interview

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Carol Houle, Senior Vice President and Global Head of Financial Services and Insurance at Atos. With over two decades of experience in building and renovating businesses seeking to focus on strategic digital transformations, Carol shares success stories and challenging lessons she has learned in her professional journey. Carol and Mik talk about the complexities of agile transformation, and the role that education can play in optimizing value streams.   Mik and Carol also have a transformative discussion about how the shift from project to product is actually a shift of mindset, and for a shift of mindset to occur acknowledgment from a higher place within individuals, and fundamentally within the organization, is crucial.  Key discussions include:   Carol’s background and history in the industry Improving technology in the last decade What is agile transformation? How to measure improvement and maintain autonomy  The need for shifting mindsets and education Special focus sessions for executives and how they can be utilized The value of servant leadership and empowerment  Setting up systems that include feedback loops to create a sense of control Instrumentation of business value to connect to your business strategy Why digital transformation is the vehicle for building relationships Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.  Follow Mik on Twitter:  @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne  www.tasktop.com  Additional Resources:  Connect with Carol Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts  For more information on Carol Houle, please visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/carol-houle/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Mark Fields, Senior Advisor to TPG Capital, a member of Planview's board of directors, and former CEO of Ford Motor Company. Mark has presided over three decades of strategic and digital transformations at global businesses and shares how he consistently succeeded with a focus on product. He discusses the value of possessing agility, a unified vision, and a rallying cry as a business to create a product that delivers more value and potentially diverts a company off more common value streams.  In this episode, Mik and Mark also discuss drive-by-wire and how a point of view on what the future is, creates a demand for businesses to create organizational structure that can support strategy. Key discussions include:  Early steps in Mark’s careerTurning Mazda around in JapanFunctional divides between business, technology, and operationsFocusing on product is how you get customers Unifying vision and having a rallying cry in a businessTurning products into platforms Diverting off common platforms to deliver customer missionsECUs in vehicles and the costAWS and Azure bills for organizationsFord’s Mach-EDigital companies Mark is on the board of and how he is helping them thriveLearnings and agility Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com Additional Resources: Connect with MarkPortfolio SAFeDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2MarTechDave West - podcast episodeScrum StudioGreenfield projectSkunkworksBimodal ITAgile Release TrainMik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts For more information about Mark Fields and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/mark-fields/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Brendan Hopper, is the CIO for technology at Commonwealth Bank Group. He is responsible for ensuring the bank has a world leading IT engineering capability and is making the right technology investments and decisions. Brendan shares what drives his passion for driving innovation and flow at organizations and why technology should become an accelerator, not a disruptor for organizations and their customers.  In this episode, Mik and Brendan also discuss org structure and the core principle that to be evolutionary means focusing on small increments and not just major redesigns. Key discussions include:  Brendan’s professional journey in strategy and engineeringHow velocity can drive safetyBuilding technology that real people delight inCreating a transformation network that is course correcting Lessons Brendan has learned in shifting from project to product The need for feedback cycles in transformationUnderstanding data that bottlenecks at the value stream level and the organization level. Restoring and repairing organizational design Why org structure has to continually changeMoving teams between value streams when roadmapping what is nextWhat Brendan is focused on today Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com Additional Resources: Connect with BrendanPortfolio SAFeDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2MarTechDave West - podcast episodeScrum StudioGreenfield projectSkunkworksBimodal ITAgile Release TrainMik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts For more information about Brendan Hopper and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/brendan-hopper/

Joining Mik on this episode of Mik + One is Steve Berez, advisory partner at Bain & Company and co-author of Doing Agile Right, Transformation Without Chaos. In this episode, Mik and Steve discuss: Insights into Steve’s 30+ year journey developing Bain’s technology practiceReal examples of implementing agile practices and how to do it rightHow to get buy-in from Finance teams and demonstrate the value of a capacity-based mindsetStrategies organizations can take to realize Agile benefits more quicklyHow Doing Agile Right can improve the business technology dialogue Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com   Additional Resources: Connect with SteveDoing Agile RightDean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2   For more information about Steve Berez and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/steve-berez/

In this episode of Mik + One, Mik is joined by Razat Gaurav, Chief Executive Officer at Planview.  In this episode, Mik and Razat discuss the trillion-dollar opportunity ahead to rebuild the future of how the enterprise works. Topics include: How new market realities will impact the way we think about transformationsDesigning foundational capabilities with resiliency in mind to maximize flow and unlock valueDeep dive into the three “waves” that optimize software value streamsThe fundamental nature of operationalizing with learning cycles and feedback loopsHow Tasktop joining Planview will dramatically accelerate the ability to help the world's organizations survive and thrive in the age of software Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Razat Gaurav and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/razat-gaurav/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Sejal Amin, current Chief Product and Technology Officer for Khoros, where she leads global product development teams to build great experiences for customers. In this episode, Mik and Sejal discuss a wide range of topics around continuous improvement, team health, organizational design, and flow. Key discussions include: Lessons Sejal learned from making the shift from project to product and barriers to overcome when making that shiftThe importance of team culture and emphasizing the health of the teamStrategies to accelerate and make lasting organizational changes that focus on outcomes; including an example of a structure and data-driven environment in which teams can thriveProven tools that increase team performance to effectively work around data and flowStructuring a product and team hierarchy that is conducive to a successful project to product transformation that enables continuous learning, improvement and innovation Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Geordie Henderson, General Manager of AWS Messaging and Streaming at Amazon Web Services, and previously the VP of Engineering at Hootsuite. In this episode, Mik and Geordie share insights into organizational design and innovation to build, integrate and lead successful software organizations, as well as other key topics including: An overview of Geordie’s experience in scaling high-performing teams at Amazon Web Services and Hootsuite, and advice to leaders on the missteps to avoidImplementing the correct team structures and dynamics when optimizing flow for business outcomesHow to successfully approach creating microservices teams and managing product needsThe concept of Single Threader Owners (STOs) and the role of product and engineering leadership when organizing around products vs. technologyInput versus output metrics and the importance of having set goals when evolving team structureAdvice to leaders on creating the dynamic and structure required for driving innovation within the organization Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Geordie Henderson and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/geordie-henderson/

In this episode of Mik + One, Mik is joined by Darrell Fernandes, Head of Product Technology at TIAA, a Fortune 100 financial services organization that is the leading provider of financial services in the academic, research, medical, cultural and governmental fields. In this episode, Mik and Darrell discuss themes around driving organizational improvement and customer value, as well as other topics including: The five key accountabilities that all IT product managers should consider when thinking about how an IT product fits within the marketInsights into successfully building out Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) that align with the business outcomes and deliver customer valueOrganizing cross-functional Agile Release Trains (ARTs) as capabilities and guidance for building them into the business and technology roadmapOperationalizing at a business level and advice on educating leadership and business counterparts when getting buy-inRecognizing success and building incentives that strengthen how the teams operate to become more innovative, efficient and value-focusedAdvice on how to approach and introduce Flow within the organization to deliver greater business value   Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Darrell Fernandes and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/darrell-fernandes/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Manuel Pais, co-author of Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow. In this episode, Mik and Manuel discuss some of the key themes in Team Topologies, as well as other topics including: Manuel's learnings and key tips on how to effectively manage team collaboration in the shift to remote-first and hybrid workingThe relationship between the ideas behind the Flow Framework and Team TopologiesAdvice on how to set up value streams to enable and improve team flow and capacity when delivering digital experiencesImplementing a reorganization and advice to leaders on how to approach this, and why it’s important to understand, implement and evolve the team topologyTreating platforms as products and the importance of investing in platform teams to manage cognitive load and provide greater value to customers Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Manuel Pais and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/manuel-pais/

To kick off the first episode of 2022, Mik is joined by two guests from Bank of New Zealand: Paul Littlefair, Chief Technology Officer, and BMK Lakshminarayanan, Value Stream Architect. In this episode, Mik, Paul and BMK delve into how Bank of New Zealand has been applying the shift from Project to Product and Flow Metrics, and other key topics including: Insight into how Bank of New Zealand’s transformation journey started, and the goals they first set out to achieveThe importance of investing in continuous improvement, and rewarding for improvement and not just outputGetting leadership buy-in, and why reporting the developer experience at the board level is crucial to enabling flow and visibilityIntroducing education around flow at all levels to create continuous learning across the organization, and insight into how Bank of New Zealand has executed thisHow tenacity, pivoting and starting today has brought a large enterprise organization like Bank of New Zealand on a great trajectory to getting things deployed, and how they’ve adapted their learnings at scale Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Paul Littlefair and BMK Lakshminarayanan and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/bank-of-new-zealand/

We're taking a break for the holidays, but Dr. Mik Kersten, Tasktop Founder & CEO, and best-selling author of 'Project to Product', has left a short message to thank all of you for tuning in over the last year. We'll be back with new episodes in 2022, however in the meantime, keep in touch by joining the Flow Framework Slack Community. Built on communal learning, trust and professional development, this community provides a safe space to connect with business and technology leaders seeking to develop expertise in the transition from project to product, value stream management, Flow Metrics and the Flow Framework. You will find a dedicated #ProjectToProduct channel where you can share success stories and challenges about your transformation journeys, ask questions and receive advice from your peers and even leave Mik a note about the podcast and suggestions for future guests! Mik has even made it his new year's resolution to check-in on discussion topics that arise from the podcast. Join now: https://flowframework.org/flow-framework-community/ Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com

We’re delighted to welcome back Leffingwell, Co-founder and Chief Methodologist at Scaled Agile. Dean is an entrepreneur and software development methodologist best known for creating SAFe®, the most widely used framework for business Agility. In this episode, Mik and Dean focus on practices and behaviors of high-performing teams, digging into their own experiences on what makes teams thrive. Additional topics include: Dean’s learnings on what he has seen with large transformations using SAFeInsight into how and why the Flow Metrics were incorporated into SAFe 5.1The importance of predictability in the enterpriseThe evolution of the Scrum Master roleMeasuring the system and outcomes, the different levels of team metrics, and who owns the Flow competency, outcomes and improvements of those metricsWhat makes a high performing team in 2021 and what Dean’s predictions on how this may look in 2025  Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Dean Leffingwell and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/dean-leffingwell-2/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Sally Elatta, CEO and Founder of AgilityHealth and Agile Videos. In this episode, Mik and Sally discuss the importance of using business agility and measurement as critical ways in driving innovation, as well as other key topics such as: Sally’s business agility journey and her learnings from over the yearsInsight into some of the biggest surprises from AgilityHealth’s study on metrics and measurementsThe success patterns of creating a roadmap for improvement of change, and the importance of continuous improvement, removing obstacles and developing talentDefining growth items and some examples of them that help teams become high-performingThe difference between business outcomes and transformation outcomes and why they are crucial at different levels of the organizationAdvice and guidance to leaders on how to get started or scale these initiatives Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Sally Elatta and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/sally-elatta/

In this episode, Mik is joined by Dave Snowden, CSO & Founder of Cognitive Edge and Director of the Cynefin Center. In this episode, Mik and Dave talk about the development of Cynefin, a framework for decision making, and other key topics including: The Cynefin framework and some of the existing methodologies and techniques that have been developedExamples of things that have gone in the wrong direction as a result of not understanding some of the first principlesThe best practices for technology leaders to identify and thrive through chaotic events or chaotic environmentsGuidance on how to take aspects of each framework and put them together in different combinationsAdvice on how to approach the Cynefin framework at various levels of leadership Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Dave Snowden and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/dave-snowden/

We're back! And what an episode we have to kick things off. Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Felipe Castro, renowned author, speaker and trainer on objectives and key results (OKRs). In this episode, Mik and Felipe talk about how Felipe helps organizations transform how they use goals by adopting OKRs, and other key topics such as: How Felipe became an early adopter of OKRsCommon mistakes organizations use when leveraging OKRsWhy unlearning is the solution to change the ways of workingThe importance of shortening Feedback loops to manage risks and connect people to outcomesCharacteristics of successful modern product teams Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com For more information about Felipe Castro and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/felipe-castro/