Ever thought about the  intersection of mental health and spiritual formation? We dive deep into this topic with Matt, who transitioned from community mental health, to worship leading, to pastoring and counseling. His unique journey presents a host of insights that challenge typical perceptions about the roles of therapists and pastors, and how they navigate the delicate balance of spiritual healing and guidance.

We examine the concept of 'performative Christianity' and its impact on our interactions. This episode explores the subtle yet profound differences between the roles of a pastor and a counselor, tackling the important themes of objectivity and intimacy in both professions. We delve into the vision of formation and how it plays a crucial role in shaping the pastoral and Christian counseling profession.

In our final discussion, we unpack the current trends on counseling and church integration, reflecting on the fears pastors may have in touching the mental health world. We talk about the longing to bring the tools of the profession down to the church level. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the overlap of mental health and spiritual formation, providing a fresh perspective on how these intersecting worlds shape our understanding of pastoral and Christian counseling. Tune in for an enlightening conversation and prepare to see the roles of pastors and counselors in a new light.