How to Sell Advice

I recently interviewed Reza Saeedi—a marketing strategist and former Director of Marketing at On Deck—about his transition from employee to marketing advisor to employee again with advising as a side venture. In this episode, we chatted about things like:How Reza got into marketing and eventually, as a mentor/advisor to entrepreneurs How he was able to get one fractional CMO and two advisory clients quickly after leaving his job at On DeckThe role of casual networking and how it led to unexpected opportunities down the lineThe difference between being specific and niching down in business based on your strengths and interestsThe role of risk-reversing guarantees and discussing prices against value during sales conversations Why turning away poor-fit clients helped with his overall confidence and contributed to his early successHow to internally handle the fact we can’t guarantee successful outcomes The value of factoring in word of mouth and referrals into your marketing planThe intersection and overlap between teaching and advisory work How Reza plans to do part-time advising in a low-labour, sustainable way How Reza stays productize and organized in his workThe importance of exercise, habits, and mental health optimizationPlus many fun tangents along the way!Whether you currently have a job and are thinking about advising full or part-time, or you’re already independent but looking to get into advisory work, this episode will have a ton of insights to offer you.Key links and mentioned resources:Reza on LinkedInReza's personal siteReza on X.comPassage.comEpisode 200: Kevan Lee on part-time advisory work, mentorship, equity compensation, and moreThe Win Without Pitching Manifesto (Book)Meditations by Marcus Aurelius 4,000 Weeks by Robert BosmanReadwise App

So, you want to publish content to attract clients.Do you start a blog? Hammer out posts on LinkedIn every day? Start a YouTube channel? A podcast?Good question. I get asked it a lot. In fact, someone in Mindshare asked me about it again today, so I thought I'd break out my mental model for how I think about publishing and distributing content.Here is a visual breakdown to look at while you listen to the latest How to Sell Advice podcast episode:

I recently had the privilege of interviewing Brad Hussey—a former web designer turned creator, educator, and community builder.In this episode, we talk about things like:How he made the leap from employee to full-time web designerHow he successfully sells web design courses on platforms like Udemy, Awwwards, Teachable, and other placesHow these courses lead to people hiring him for web design services, training, coaching and even requesting more courses—creating a flywheel for his businessHow he leveraged his expertise into a partnership with Wix, where he hosts and maintains the Creative Crew CommunityHow his partnership with Wix is structured and run in terms of compensation and accountabilitiesA breakdown of his revenue streams, including services, community, courses, sponsorships, ad revenue, and affiliatesHis thoughts on publishing his courses on his own website and on learning platforms for a double benefitHow he built and monetized two YouTube channels with tens of thousands of followers across both channelsHis advice on how to grow a YouTube channel—and how it benefits his businessAnd a lot more!Resources & Links MentionedBrad's WebsiteCreative Crew CommunityBrad's audio/video equipmentKevin's audio/video equipmentBeCreatives - Unlimited Video Subscription AgencyVideo Huskey$100 Startup by Chris Guillebeau The Almanac of Raval Ravikant by Eric Jorgenson Listen here or subscribe via your podcast player.—kevinP.S. Like this episode? Share it with another marketer and help them build a more leveraged and profitable marketing practice, too!

The other week, I chatted with former software consultant turned CRM SaaS owner, Reuben Swartz about how to do sales in a way that doesn't feel like selling and instead sets up your relationships for success.In this episode, we chat about things like:Why traditional sales processes don't workHow he helps people win clients without being sales-yHow having a clear target market helps your sales successReframing "sales" as "educating" and "networking" as "connecting"Why having a strong marketing engine allows you to be better at salesA mental model for generating more referralsShould you give gifts and thank-you notes to people who refer business to you?Easy ways to maintain contact with people in your networkAnd a lot more!If selling isn't your jam—or even if it is—you'll get a ton of value out of this episode. The mindsets and mental models he shares make it easy to navigate sales conversations without getting mired in tactical "steps" which can often confuse you and put a barrier between you and your prospects.Resources mentioned:The Go-Giver by Bob BergAlchemy by Rory Sutherland Mimiran: The fun, antiCRMReuben on LinkedInThanks for listening, and if you enjoy the show, please share it with a friend!—kw

Do you have a proprietary framework or methodology you can build an entire business around?I recently recorded a podcast with Billy Broas, a copywriter, advisor, and educator who has built a business around his proprietary messaging framework, The Five Lightbulbs. In this episode, Billy and I unpack the Five Lightbulbs and then go deep into how his business works, how he gets clients, and a lot more.We discuss things like:Why having a proprietary framework like the Five Lightbulbs is key to selling adviceHow he leveraged his IP into courses, books, and other more leveraged ways How he evolved his business from doing to advising and now teaching Selling custom services with some productization on the back endWhy he focuses on the evergreen fundamentals of marketing and not just the “new thing”How products get better by empathizing with and better understanding the customerWhy we should systemize and codify our expertise that outlives youHow teaching other audiences—i.e. industry software companies—leads to more business (Golden Goose Strategy)How teaching courses and programs can lead to consulting engagements with studentsHow writing simple emails on a single topic under your own name works well as a format for email newslettersHow to fold the Five Lightbulbs framework into your emails and other marketing materialsFind Billy Online:Billy’s WebsiteBilly’s TwitterBooks Mentioned:Selling the Invisible by Harry BeckwithBreakthrough Advertising by Eugene SchwartzAuthors like:Gary HalbertVictor SchwabbJoe SugarmanClaude Hopkins

I recently decided to rebrand the Mindshare franchise (can I call it that?).Listen in for all the details!—kw

Do you focus much on optimizing your website for search engines? Personally, I don’t really do much beyond the basic best practices. My strategy has been more focused on email, social media, and Golden Goose tactics to build awareness for what I do.But a part of me feels like I’m missing out—especially as I begin to sell knowledge products to a large potential audience.That’s why I wanted to talk to Tsavo Neal about how he approaches his marketing and business model. Tsavo gets almost all of his clients and customers through search engine optimization. It just so happens, he teaches other consultants how to do the same. Which made this episode packed with value.In this episode of Mindshare Radio, Tsavo and I unpack:How he decided to niche down on helping consultants attract clients through their websiteA breakdown of his business model comprised of do-it-yourself and done-with-you offeringsHow raised the price of his course from $197 to $497 without losing deterring new customersHis thoughts on evergreen vs. launch-based (open vs. closed-cart) access to his courseHow he sells $5-6k in digital products each month relying almost exclusively on SEOA walkthrough of his done-with-you SEO service and how he designed the programA deep-dive walkthrough of his SEO process, including research, outlining, writing, editing, publishing, and distributionHow he chooses keywords to write articles for based on competitiveness and difficultyHow he’s applying these same skills and techniques to rank and monetize a website in the Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu niche And a lot more!If you've ever thought you might want to get your website ranking better for search engines, get your pencil ready because this episode will show you how.Mentioned links and resources:Phillip MorganConsulting SuccessAhrefs.comTsavoNeal.comBJJEquipment.com—kP.S. Want a deeper-dive training on how to do exactly this process? Tsavo shared an over-the-shoulder view for Mindshare members last month on how he does it. Sign up to get access to that plus a library of other training, group coaching, a private Slack community and more. Learn more about Mindshare →

A few weeks ago, I invited Mindshare member and long-time marketing consultant, Mark Evans, to talk shop with me about the business of marketing consulting and fractional CMO work.This was a really fun episode. We went deep into the nerdy nuances of fractional/interim CMO and advisory work.Some topics we explored include:Mark’s transition from reporter to marketing consultantHow he uses his training as a reporter to do positioning and messaging workThe challenges and frustrations of fractional CMO workWhy a strategic advisory work is his preferred way to engage with clientsHis thoughts on coaching, mentoring, and training in-house marketersThe value proposition of interim CMO vs. fractional CMOPricing and value calculations for advisors vs. fCMOsRefund policies and minimum commitment periodsSetting expectations and getting clear on goals before starting engagementsHow and when to turn down clients who aren’t a fitThe importance of continually marketing yourselfUsing video, podcasts, and showing up in person to build trust Books mentioned:The Inside Advantage by Robert Bloom and Dave ContiDon’t Make Me Think by Steve KrugRocket Surgery Made Easy by Steve KrugConnect with Mark:Marketing Spark (consulting website)Twitter

The other day, I replied to a Twitter friend's (@RodBurkert) open question:My question: What is the 'right next best thing' you should do to create the biggest leverage and productivity boost for your practice?I replied with the following:Taking the expertise in your head and putting it into writing/audio/video, then organizing it into a system or framework so others can learn from you without having to repeat yourself forever.But then I wanted to expand on this idea further since it's core to everything I teach.That's what this episode is about: how to take your expertise out of your head so you can deploy it without having to repeat yourself forever.Listen in and let me know what you think.—k

It's easy to believe that as advisors, we get paid to have all the answers.We feel like to add value, we need to be able to tell people what to do.What if instead, our value came from things like:Asking good questionsHaving good tasteRunning ideas through your filtersPattern matching against your experienceCreating visions to considerClarifying ideas that aren't well-consideredBeing an encourager of good ideasWrestling with optionsLooking at things from different perspectivesPlaying devil's advocatePushing people out of their comfort zoneAs technicians, we like knowing the best tool or tactic to use for any situation. As creatives, we like envisioning new ideas and potential futures.But as advisors, what if we didn't feel like we needed to have all answers, and instead helped our clients explore options until the answers became a little more obvious?Your value isn't having all the answers. Your value comes from helping your clients make good decisions.There are a lot of ways to get a result. The key is helping your clients choose the right way for them.Listen to this episode or subscribe via your podcast player.—kwP.S. REGISTER FOR THE UPCOMING WORKSHOPNext week (January 25 at 11:00 am EST) I'm hosting a live 90-minute workshop (with the recording made available) on how to package, price, and sell custom consulting services. We'll go deep on creating custom proposals that convert, so don't miss this one.REGISTER NOW

I recently interviewed Kevan Lee, the former VP of Marketing at Buffer and currently Senior VP of Marketing at Oyster.Kevan is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to leading tech startups to significant growth. To give you an example, he helped Buffer go from $5m to $20m in annual revenue and 100,000 new customers acquisitions per month. In his first year at Oyster, he helped the company 20x its revenue and build a marketing team comprising over 50 people. He's also involved as an educator and advisor with Reforge, On Deck, as well as a past contributor to ProductLed, and more.In this interview, Kevan and I explore the realm of advisory work. We cover topics like:How he approaches advisory work while having a full-time gigHow he views mentorship and why it's important to himHow he prices his advice—and what he's learning in the processHis experience on the buyer side of equity for advice compensation discussionsHow he packages his ideas into a playbook that he shares with paying Substack subscribersAnd a lot more...This conversation was a fun exploration of the world of advisory work. And like all of us, Kevan is still figuring out what works best for him.You can follow Kevan on Twitter at @kevanlee and subscribe to his Substack at kevanlee.substack.com.Give this a listen and subscribe to get more interviews like this in the future.—k

You may be a rock star when it comes to marketing your clients' business. But when it comes to your own, it might be an entirely different story. And you know what? That doesn't make you a bad marketer. It's incredibly hard to market yourself—especially if you don't have a system to follow.In this episode, I break down the three core pillars to attracting more clients:Looking good "on paper" to your ideal clientsHaving somewhere to invite people back toOpening conversations and fostering relationshipsThis might seem simple, and it is. But it's not easy. It takes time, energy, and commitment to build it out and for it to start working for you.But with any luck, this framework (and the details I talk about in the episode) will make attracting clients a lot easier. When you have clarity, you can really lean into your efforts and start seeing traction faster than simply winging it.Listen to this episode for all the nuances and details.—k

What if the way to get your emails read and subscribers to stay subscribed was to lower the bar a little?Not in terms of quality, necessarily. But in terms of format or type.Instead of trying to write a grand theory of mathematics every time you publish, what if we treated email more like social media?What if we aimed for a simple, concise, interesting, and/or fun piece of content?Something light and consumable. Not overthought. Not pre-judged. Just something you found interesting or valuable.Would you be able to be consistent with your publishing habits? Would your readers prefer it? Would it keep you interested?I think yes. But there's nuance, as with all things.So give this a listen. See if it resonates with your headspace.See if it helps you overcome that mental block stopping you from sharing your ideas with your subscribers.And while you're at it, subscribe to Mindshare Radio via your podcast player to get more ideas like this (and interviews coming soon).—k

The most successful businesses have a high degree of customer-centricity. Think Amazon or Google—they're absolutely relentless about the customer experience.And in the consulting world, the most successful advisors are the ones who have a high customer-centricity and low self-orientation.Not sure what this all means? In this episode, I break down how to put your client at the epicentre of your business, how to reduce your self-orientation, and the trade-offs needed to do all of this well.

The odds of you succeeding with new ventures or ideas out of the gate is low. It’s not fun but it’s true.Even if your idea is good, it might be adjacent to the one the market wants. A small set of tweaks and iterations to the format, offer, or audience might just be what it needs to take off.And that’s empowering! It means you’re not alone. Nobody figures everything out right away.It’s easy to get frustrated when things aren’t clicking for you—especially when you’re trying something new that you feel really passionate about.It can feel like two steps forward and one step back. We look around for answers but get frustrated when nobody offers the magic pill.There is no magic pill, only iteration and innovation.We have to hold our vision strong while simultaneously being loose about our best ideas. It’s a fine line between a steadfast vision and being oblivious to what the market wants.If you are willing to iterate and innovate continually, it’s only a matter of time before your vision and what your audience wants are in complete alignment.Listen in for more on this topic if you’re in this mode or subscribe via your podcast player.

Do you ever stop to wonder what it is we are really selling as consultants? Are we selling a website, strategy, or brand identity? Yes... and no. Those are features of our work. And people don't really buy features.Maybe we are selling new customer growth? Better retention? Ease of use? Those are all great benefits of our work. But let's dig a little deeper. What is the emotion behind those benefits? What feeling are we really creating with our work?People buy based on how they feel about the purchase. It aligns with logic, yes. But it's driven by emotion. So it makes sense to explore that emotion people are really seeking inside of what we sell. I believe most consultants are selling confidence. Give this a listen to see what I mean. Get this right and it will be a lot easier to create and sell the true benefits of your work.—k

It's incredibly easy to get sucked into being an employee-like figure when you do fractional leadership work.When I first got started as a fractional CMO, I basically had two part-time jobs. The money was good but I worked HARD. I knew I needed to create better parameters.In this episode of Mindshare Radio, I'll break down the five main ways to avoid turning into a set of employee-like hands when you sell fractional CXO services.We'll talk about things like:Setting expectations during salesDefining what you will or won't doBuilding your RolodexSetting a limit on your time if neededDown-selling yourself to pure advisory workAnd a ton of nuance in between.Listen in and let me know what you think—did I miss anything important?Hit reply and let me know.—kP.S. Need help transitioning into advisory/fractional CXO work? Check out my Paid to Think program or join Mindtrust, the no-brainer group coaching and training program for as little as $63/mo. when you pay annually.

This post originally appeared at https://kevin.me/waysYou can think about niching in a lot of ways.In many cases, the tighter you go, the easier it can be to sell what you offer. People are swimming in options, they want specific when they can get it.So there are two angles to consider when deciding on how specific you should go with your business.1. You can get specific about who you serveThe more specific your target market, the broader your focus can be in terms of what you help people with—while still being credible.If I help multi-location coworking spaces do better marketing, that's a specific target market and a fairly broad way of helping them. It can be reasoned that you can have rare knowledge about marketing in a way that is uniquely applied to multi-location coworking spaces.If I said I help anyone do better marketing at scale, you can begin to see where the skepticism may come in.2. You can get specific about the problem you solveWhen you're highly specific about the problem you solve, it makes sense that you could solve it credibly for a wide range of industries.For example, I could say I help people sell their expertise through membership programs. And that could be a reasonably credible positioning given the specificity of the problem being solved.I don't need to say "I help faith-based dog groomers sell membership programs." The market would be too small. And the same skills or lessons could be applied to far greater contexts.And this is what strategy is all about.There's no perfect way to position your consulting business. Specificity helps—but how you apply specificity is where the hard choices are made.So what trade-offs are you making? How are you being specific about either what you do or who you do it for?As they say, hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life.

I don't position myself as a fractional CMO.I might have a fractional CMO service. Or in a sales conversation, I may say that I'm like having a part-time CMO on your team. But I don't call myself a fractional CMO as my top-level positioning.I'm a consultant. I'm an advisor. I help companies with their marketing strategy.But I'm not a part-time employee. I don't want to be seen as one. Nor do I want their actual marketing team to be threatened by what may seem like a new boss breathing down their neck.In this episode, I go into:Why I believe it's best to position yourself as a consultant—not an employee-like personWhen to use terms like "fractional CMO" in your sales conversations and marketing copyHow to avoid threatening the in-house marketing managers when you're hired to help their organization.The topic is nuanced, but I think it's important if you are selling strategic advisory services.

What is your quiet inner voice telling you?The one that whispers. You barely notice it at first. But when you do hear it, you're inspired. Should you explore it? Maybe you don't take it seriously at first. Maybe it feels like a pipe dream. It's not always rational. Sometimes it's idealistic. Regardless, when you pay attention to it, it feels directionally interesting. Where does it come from?I've noticed that it shows up when I take time away from my business. It shows up on vacations, bike rides, long walks, or while reading a good book. I'm not sure if it's the truth or just a passing random idea, but it feels worth exploring.So what do you do when that voice says something? Do you jump to action or think about it until it no longer inspires you? Is it valuable or random? That's what I cover today.It may just be the very thing that helps you create unique, valuable, and lasting work.Or maybe not. Who knows.—k