Off The Clock Toolbox Talk

Dr. Jeremy Milloy tells us about constructive coercion: a concept created in the 1960's and 70's from concerns that Vietnam veterans would return from war unable to navigate the workplace due to opioid addiction. Industry leaders believed that people (primarily men) would be incentivized to get treatment through the workplace in order to keep their jobs. Assessment of who had problematic substance use then fell on worksite foreman to identify who needed to be sent to see a counsellor and go into treatment.Employers and workers then began this complex, codependent relationship that we now call extended benefits. If the employee comes forward asking for help, the employer has a duty to support the employee. But if the employee gets caught with a positive drug test, then they are fired and no longer have access to recovery benefits. The only way to access affordable treatment is through the employer, but workers feel obligated to hide their drug use so the employer can continue to be profitable.The story becomes even more convoluted when we look at drug testing at remote work camps. Jeremy refers to the dance of drug testing as theater where only capitalism wins by creating a drug testing industry and fake urine industry. But neither the employer nor the worker benefit from the practice of drug testing. Furthermore the entire drug testing practice completely ignores the issues of pain and trauma that underlie the vast majority of substance use and employee wellness. Dr. Jeremy Milloy says, " Constructive coercion proceeds from a story that work and problematic substance use are disconnected... rather than acknowledging that drugs are helping people meet the demands of the job... The call is coming from inside the house."Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Constructive Coercion Is a Thing features scholar Dr. Jeremy Milloy who studies the history of how we got to have the kind of workplaces we have (good and bad). His work is motivated by the fact that our jobs have a such a huge effect on our lives, our identities, our health, and our life outcomes.  Jeremy’s original work started by studying the concept of violence in the workplace, specifically how seemingly average humans get to the point where they ‘go postal’. And while Jeremy did discover a number of under-reported obvious violence such as shootings and stabbings, he also discovered that workplace violence was much more subtle. His original work targeted North America’s auto manufacturing industry, but the parallels of his findings are widespread across all workers, including construction trades. Themes of hazing, ‘paying your dues’ and enforcing codes of conduct after hours in places like the bar are prevalent amongst most workers, blue collar, hospitality, transportation, everywhere.Part One of the conversation winds up as we begin talking specifically about substance use in the trades, and Jeremy brings up the concept of Constructive Coercion that was utilized in the 1980’s, as it was thought it would motivate workers to stay off harmful drugs. To find out more about constructive coercion, catch Constructive Coercion Is A Thing Part 2, released on November 18, 2024.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Season 4, Episode 3In this episode, construction safety officer and carpenter C. Michael Kinsella, shares how he owes his whole life to his Red Seal.When school wasn’t working out so well in junior high, Michael went straight into construction at the ripe old age of 14. ​He loved it. After an overdose at 16, Michael found a father figure in the industry and formed a chosen "family" of mentors around him. He and co-host Trevor Botkin discuss the value of these bonds that are formed on work sites. ​Trevor and Michael go on to discuss some of the physical and psychological stressors of the industry, and the toll they take on a person and their biological family. And substance use is a regular part of that life.​Michael explains how he learned how to behave at work - and how to nurture his own physical, social and mental health. He encourages other tradespeople to foster a culture of wellness and humanity amongst their crews as well.In 2023, Michael co-founded The New PPE, a non-profit organization whose values center around safety, accessibility, and empowerment. It's hope is a future where every workplace in Canada has the tools and knowledge to protect against the preventable tragedy of a toxic drug supply. A future where personal protective equipment includes naloxone and is mandated across all industries. Learn more and offer support at TheNewPPE.org.  Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

When psychologist, Dr. Nicole Anders, lost her beloved brother Cody to overdose, she navigated her grief through writing daily love letters to Cody. Her book, One Hundred Goodbyes is a collection of those love letters, bridging the personal and clinical dimensions of her grief.Nicole discusses that she frequently talks with her kids about their Uncle Cody. She suggests answering questions about a loved one’s overdose factually, but also keeping the answers simple for young children. She says when kids are older, discuss that their loved one took a medicine and didn’t know what was in it. Co-host Daniel emphasizes the centrality of people taking a substance and not knowing what’s in it, and how this drug poisoning crisis is entirely preventable.Nicole coaches that grief doesn’t make sense, but our brains continually wrestle with it. In her own bargaining stage of grief, she wishes she would have been more loving in her interactions with Cody. In her humanity, even though she’s a psychologist, she wishes she would have dropped her judgement and frustration and just listened to Cody more. She now utilizes the phrase “how human of you” to disarm her own shame, and the shame of others she works with.The conversation wraps up talking about the importance of person-first language so we see the human in front of us and don’t identify them by one particular struggle.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Anthony shares his story of growing up in a family of tradesmen where hard work and thick money were at the center of their way of being. And with the hard work came hard substance use.As a teen, addicted to alcohol and cocaine, Anthony went to his parents to ask for help when he realized he was in more trouble than he could handle. His father’s solution was to send him to Fort McMurray where Anthony’s cowboy lifestyle cemented in. After decades of remote work, burning down one town and moving on to the next, Anthony found himself alone and using dangerous opiates. With a six month old child now in his life, he realized he had to do something different and reached out to an aunt who helped him get into recovery. Anthony’s recovery experience was not straightforward, and he feels that after one year of recovery, he was just beginning to thaw out from decades of substance use. It took several years for him to figure out how to start living his life. Anthony discovered his son was in foster care at two years of age and knew he had to do the right thing and break the cycle of inter-generational trauma. He took some parenting courses and did more personal work so he could be a better father. Anthony and his mother were able to gain custody of his son, and Anthony continues to learn and grow beyond the harmful patterns he learned from his dad and uncles, creating a better life for himself and his son.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

The Season 3 Sampler lets you get a bite of each episode:1. Shawn's Story2. Aeris' Story Part 13. Jason's Story4. Superintendent Summit5. Losing Someone to Overdose6. CSO Shane's Story7. Aeris's Story Part 2Covering lots of really tough stuff, and emerging with our humanity intact, this sampler is all about connecting to each others' stories.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Aeris’s Story Part 2 picks up where Aeris is just coming back to reality after being in a coma for a month. His steadfast family helps him slowly recover from kidney, liver and brain damage. Advocating on his behalf, his family asks the doctors for a pain specialist as they believe Aeris consumed poisoned drug supply because he was attempting to self medicate his pain from multiple surgeries and ongoing complex medical diagnoses. With the prevailing assumptions about people who access unregulated drug supply, instead of a pain specialist, Aeris is given an addictions doctor. While Aeris has minimal intellectual functioning as his brain is still swollen and recovering, instead of supporting him with his pain management, the healthcare system coerces him into going on OAT (Opioid Agonist Treatment) that effectively causes him to become dependent on opioids that don’t actually address his pain. So as Aeris fights to regain his intellectual capacity and day to day functioning in his life, by virtue of what OAT is, he is now also dependent on opioids again and he is daily humiliated by a doctor who refuses to take him or his family at their word. Because Aeris is willing to do anything and everything he can to recover, to be there for his kids and family, he tolerates this inhumane treatment from the medical system for over a year.Eventually Aeris becomes well enough that he’s able to self advocate to find another more trauma-informed doctor who supports Aeris to manage his own Suboxone tapering, and Aeris is able to fully recover, including recovery of dignity. Between ongoing Crohn’s and other health issues that have emerged due to Crohn’s, Aeris’s rebar days come to a mutually agreeable end. While Aeris is feeling lost without his rod busting crew, an opportunity to become a drug testing specialist with Mountainside Harm Reduction emerges where Aeris is able to utilize all his personal and family experiences with substances, and give other folks the supports that he rarely found. https://mtnsidesociety.ca/  “Be kind to that person on the street… you don’t know what they're dealing with… and sometimes one moment of kindness could honestly save a life… Do the best to advocate yourself, or do your best because I know it can be really hard... Get your drugs checked!” – Aeris FinchOff The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

As rod buster Aeris Finch refers to partway through his story, his struggle really began at age 11, when he lost his older brother to an MDMA accident. But some of the effects of that trauma didn’t emerge until he began experimenting with substances himself as a teenager. Another layer of complexity emerged when Aeris developed painful and debilitating Crohn’s disease while working rebar as young adult. While Aeris’s description of his day-to-day existence with Crohn’s is graphic, it highlights the desperation of ridiculous circumstances that many tradespeople with extreme stressors have to navigate while trying to meet the grueling demands of physically intensive labour.  The stakes rise yet again in Aeris’s story as he desperately clings to the company he works for, doing everything he can to provide for his new family, and in the midst of trying to find some brief relief, comes into toxic drug supply, and stops breathing for long enough that for all intents and purposes, he is brain-dead. Remarkably kept alive for weeks by machines and medical interventions, Aeris survives against medical prognosis. We leave Part 1 as Aeris emerges from his coma and begins to return to reality from intense brain swelling. But the story is only half over. Listen to Aeris’s Story Part 2 to find out what happened next as Aeris tries to recover from hypoxic brain injury from drug poisoning.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Superintendent Summit features in-depth discussion about how to lead work sites in a day where all our crews are affected by mental health and overdose (drug poisoning). From their own experiences, Superintendents Duncan Jordan and Trevor Botkin together with CSO Shane Sewell discuss many of the factors that have to be juggled between the demands of the business and the wellness of the crews; both ends have to be balanced to produce profit and have a crew healthy enough to produce the profit. Duncan and Trevor discuss that a super’s job is not to be a psychologist or counsellor. But when they can build a crew where people feel seen and heard, where the super is perceived as approachable by crew members, when crew members see themselves as invested in the physical and mental safety of the worksite, then striking the balance between profit and wellness becomes attainable. The development of these social skills, however, are not typically afforded to a superintendent; it often happens through a super’s personal journey or recovery. And that’s difficult to facilitate as an active Superintendent.Duncan emphasizes the importance of education in all things safety – physical on site safety, safety with drug use, and safety with one’s mental health. Duncan gets personal and tells us how he tries to educate folks through the story of loved ones he’s lost to suicide. Trevor shares that he’s also lost beloved crew members to suicide as well. They agree that these losses drive them to take an extra moment with crew members, friends and family, even when there’s so much on their plate. Co-host Karen ties it up with a feeling that project participants have expressed before, that all these beloved people we’ve lost in construction, that perhaps its their energy that carries us forward in the work we do, to create a world where people can talk about these things, where previous generations could not.If you or someone you know is having suicidal thoughts, 988 is Canada’s suicide crisis line. You can call by yourself, 24/7, or you can call together with a buddy. Many of us in the Off the Clock Toolbox Talk community know these feelings and are sending out our love and hope to you.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

CSO Shane Sewell (different than Shayne’s Story) takes us on his heart’s journey from an 8-year-old with an invisible disability and an abusive parent, to an adult inner life that was continually erupting with low self esteem and feeling like he wasn’t good enough.  Shane relates to many with tales of public school failure, difficulty fitting in, and eventually living a life that centred around substance use. Shane’s unconscious trauma responses, that outwardly appeared in his drug and alcohol use, caused the loss of his first marriage and brought him to a place where he couldn’t even carry on basic life functioning. With no other options, he entered treatment at Maple Ridge Treatment Centre and began putting the pieces back together. Eventually Shane found a new partner whom he credits with helping him recover. Together they had a daughter, and Shane began noticing that he was doing all the same things to his family that his dad had done to him. A return visit to Maple Ridge Treatment Centre gave Shane the tools and recovery capital he needed to build a life that had meaning for him. He found that meaning by helping others through his work as a CSO, which feeds his soul as much as it feeds his family.  Thank-you, Shane, for helping us understand through our hearts, which sometimes work better than our brains.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Jason White, electrician and former rock star hopeful, shares his story of substance use, addiction, and the sharp turn that snatched him out of a sinking darkness, showing him a better way of being. Like many people’s stories contain powerful moments of change, Jason’s includes a moment of divine intervention, followed up by an unlikely confirmation days later that played out on a tour bus in stopped traffic in the middle of the Trans Canada Highway. With a film crew on board the tour bus, you can still watch this music video that captured the moment and catch a glimpse of Jason at this point in his life at https://youtu.be/o1__RgU7WD4?si=46jZipiNpJSpuxm6Jason ties up his story with heartfelt outreach to other men who are struggling with mental health and substance use. Jason also reflects on losing a family member to suicide, encouraging men to find someone around them they can talk to, and encouraging foremen and other leaders to be that guy who asks others how its really going.Special thanks to https://www.nightelect.com/ for supporting this episode and OTCTBT!Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

If you've been looking for relatable, non-invasive support after losing someone to overdose (drug poisoning), you've found it. Holding heartbreak in one hand and inspiration to take action in the other, Kale Moth and Julie Cochrane explore life after losing their loved one to overdose.Kale talks about the increasing crisis in Saskatchewan where he works, having lost 23 co-workers in the last 6 years. Julie talks about her professional practice, as a hypnotherapist, inspired to bring  timely and effective services to young men who are suffering from their own pain, loss, and mental health issues.Julie quickly transitions into her grief journey where she just needed to take action, to learn and prevent other families from going through the suffering her family has.  From the surreal moments the police showed up at their door, to seeing the overdose crisis being politically weaponized, this episode meaningfully moves through the personal tragedy, the what-if's, stigma, and how we move forward, together.Resources mentioned in this episode are Mom's Stop the Harm, Holding Hope group for people supporting a loved one using substances https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/holding-hope-support-groups AND Healing Hearts for families who have had a death from drug poisoning https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/healing-hearts-groups. Julie can also be contacted at Julie@JulieCochrane.comOff The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Ironworker, Shawn Underhill, joins Daniel and Karen to talk about his journey through problematic substance use and addiction. From Shawn’s early days smoking pot as a teen in his first construction job, to navigating problematic substance use in camps up north, to using to get through pain, grief, and exhaustion, Shawn demonstrates how recovery is anything but a straight line. Daniel and Shawn discuss how, on average, most people addicted to opioids struggle with that addiction for 15 years, but they do recover, even though it typically takes multiple attempts. The recurring theme of Shawn’s story is his mom’s constant voice, in her life and death, urging Shawn to access help at Fraser House Society (the host organization of this podcast). And every time he returned, he grew more and more, adding to his toolbox, ultimately creating a life of beauty that he loves. Shawn’s counsellor, Sam, jumps in at the end and Shawn and Sam give us some insight on what the first few weeks of counselling are like, and what its like to begin the counselling journey. Shawn closes out with a poem he wrote at a very dark time, to cultivate hope for us all.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

The Off the Clock Toolbox Talk Season 2 Sampler serves up select appetizers from Season 2 episodes, combined with house-style transitional music to keep your groove on throughout your day. The Season 2 Sampler features (in order): 1.      Kayle’s Story - Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin2.      Squishy Meat Bags (I Don’t Have Trauma. You Have Trauma) – Jason White, Jonas  Watkins, Sabine Sasakura, Karen Janzen3.      Psychedelic Surprise – Mike Mathers, Daniel Snyder4.      Shayne’s Story: The Aftershow – Shayne Taylor, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen5.      Rig Life (And Other Tough Work Sites) – Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin6.      Curious AF – Mike Mathers, Daniel Snyder7.      Shayne’s Story: The Aftershow – Shayne Taylor, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen8.      Ditch the Tough: Keep the Love – Kat Wahamaa, Daniel Snyder9.      Random Recovery Talk – Kale Moth, Trevor Botkin, Karen Janzen Special thanks to the BC Sand Stone & Gravel Association for inviting Off the Clock Toolbox Talk to the BCSSGA Conference, and for standing behind our tradespeople in the drug poisoning crisis.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

The conversation continues as Trevor, Shayne and Karen discuss ‘safety is behavioral’; these life-wisdom conversations need to happen in-person, breathing and sharing energy together, preferred where apps, lectures, and protocols fall short. Karen and Trevor confirm this same thread from the Random Recovery Talk episode https://www.tradespodcast.com/s2-ep5 where it emerged that recovery is leadership of self to recruit help. Recovery is not done in isolation; it requires a relational context with other humans, referred to as 'co-regulation'. And recovery is spiritual—however you connect with something meaningful outside yourself. Shayne creates the metaphor of a toolkit; whatever recovery path you’re on, you’re gathering tools along the way with every experience to put into your toolkit. And we need to access those tools on a regular basis.Trevor and Shayne discuss the power of Shayne’s confession that “The first lie I ever told myself is that I’m okay,” meaning all the things that brew consciously and subconsciously for years leading up to catastrophic blow-up. The group discuss the difficulties of recruiting help, yet it’s pivotal to moving forward in our own well-being. The conversation ties up with Shayne’s suggestion of changing the terminology of “rock bottom” to “the point of return”.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Shayne Taylor, Corporate Director of HSE at The Gisborne Group joins Karen and guest co-host, Trevor Botkin, to talk about his personal experiences with mental health and substance use. Uniquely, Shayne’s adulthood career path fluctuated between the construction trades and psychological care supports in mental health and substance use services, while his own binge drinking, substance use and associated harms carried on for decades. Shayne’s experiences in these two radically different fields ultimately led him to safety work in construction where he’s now a strong advocate for meeting regular people where they’re at, opening the door to better quality of life through human connection.This episode contains mention of childhood sexual abuse, explicit drug use, and description of an overdose experience. Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Continuing the conversation from “Curious AF”, Daniel and Karen talk with Mike Mathers who demystifies psychedelic therapy and the incredible results of clinical trials ongoing amidst a grey psychedelic market in Canada. Mike warns against covertly accessing psychedelics without clinical supports as psychedelics release undigested emotions that can be terrifying and even damaging if the user has spent a lot of time and effort avoiding undigested emotions that they didn’t know that they had. Mike discloses his experiences of video game and cannabis addiction as a numbing response to the undigested emotions he had from divorce and loss of connection with his three young children. Mike articulates that when we can’t face painful feelings, they don’t die, they turn into zombies. Psychedelics are medicines of grief and love and help us face the painful feelings, and give us a chance to process them, arriving at self-forgiveness, ultimately allowing ourselves to move forward and grow.  Mike points out how its important to “build a Temple of Regret” and visit it often, not to ruminate in the past, but to look, eyes wide open with curiosity, at how past painful experiences have hurt us, and then use that information to help us grow and move into meaning and our calling in life.  Like Karen, you too might be surprised at the unexpected gems and hacks around trauma and unwanted emotions in this episode of Off the Clock Toolbox Talk.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Therapist Mike Mathers joins Daniel and Karen to talk about his new book coming out in 2024, Curious AF. Mike sets us up to understand how the human mind operates as a social entity that needs to belong to a group, and influences us to operate to avoid shame, particularly childhood shame that we can’t even remember, but that our subconscious still accesses to inform our daily thoughts & decisions.Mike talks about his common friend who is always there for him, “I’m a Fucking Idiot”, and how we have a relationship with “I’m a Fucking Idiot” and we don’t even know it. Daniel asks if all addictions are driven by shame. Mike says he calls shame “unconscious unworthiness”. He draws a link to feelings as data that provide information about our lives and what’s missing in terms of emotional regulation, social connection and meaning and purpose.Mike goes on to explain that the antidote to shame is to get curious about it using “I wonder…” questions, whose answer doesn’t matter because you can’t be judgmental and curious at the same time. Curiosity changes what's going on in our mind and body and gets us out of shame. Follow along with Karen who gets “therapized” in this episode. Early listener reviews have characterized Curious AF as a free half hour of damn good therapy.Find Mike Mathers and information about his book, Curious AF, at https://www.wellnessevolved.ca. Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Trevor, Kale and Karen drift through some random conversation on subtle aspects of the recovery journey. Kale discusses that recovery isn’t easy, but as you begin to feed yourself, you get strong AF. Trevor remembers how tied he was to his negative identities as a tradesman. Kale shares the energy that is brought to him when he opens his heart to the opportunities that recovery brings, even in the hours right before recording the podcast.  Trevor remembers searching out recovery stories when he knew he needed to get off the ride but didn’t know how. He acknowledges that we just need to talk more openly with each other about what’s really going on, and what we’re learning and understanding as men.Karen shares her emotional expertise: that emotions are just there to help you figure out what’s going on, and what to do about it. Trevor reflects on his frequently asked question, “if we’re so fucking tough, why can’t we talk about our feelings?”The group discusses Johann Hari’s quote, “The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection,” connection to self and others, and wtf is self love? And how do you get it? Trevor brings in the role of spirituality [not religion] in understanding self love. Karen adds her post-conversation thoughts that recovery is actually about leadership of self. Recovery is social; we don’t recover in isolation. Recovery is vulnerability that transforms into leadership.Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

Daniel chats with podcast project partner, Kat Wahamaa from Mom’s Stop the Harm about losing her twenty-five year old son Joseph to the unregulated drug crisis, and about the unintentional and intentional harms that are taking place in Canada, from decision makers in Ottawa to families sitting around their tables at home. Kat points out how the drug poisoning crisis is traumatizing an entire generation of children whose parents have been killed by unregulated drugs, including Joseph’s two young sons.Kat expresses her anger at some politicians’ willful obfuscation to frame safe supply as the cause of approximately 23,000 deaths in Canada since 2020. Daniel and Kat discuss the political polarization of harm reduction versus abstinence-based treatment that aren’t opposites at all, but part of the same spectrum of treatment for a dangerous disease.The conversation turns to the moralizing that happens to humans who use particular drugs. Kat says the real criminality is with the politicians that continue to allow thousands of people to die by refusing to create safe supply because it doesn’t support their political standing. She believes that the majority of Canadians do not moralize drug use, but the only education many Canadians receive on drug use is media propaganda that is not connected to any actual evidence or research, but is a relic of twentieth century American political rhetoric.Daniel and Kat agree that keeping people alive, and using drugs, is more important than trying to stop people from using drugs and having them die.Daniel asks what has changed since the beginning of the “overdose crisis” when Joseph was killed. Kat considers that people are tested, but then are sanctioned for testing positive. Men in the trades don’t trust the confidentiality of accessing their Employee Assistance Programs (EAP’s). Employers still have very long shifts in order to make project deadlines. Some changes that have happened are the Building Hope video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFiCM1Qlmk ,  the Tailgate Toolkit https://thetailgatetoolkit.ca/  and Off the Clock Toolbox Talk https://www.tradespodcast.com/ . But men in the trades, friends of Joseph’s, are still dying. Young trades people in the 25-35 age range are going to more funerals than weddings.  Kat talks about the national work of Mom’s Stop The Harm, whose primary role is advocacy, but also support groups like Holding Hope https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/holding-hope-support-groups  and Healing Hearts https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/healing-hearts-groups .Kat and Daniel discuss some of the shame-based narratives and practices that are actually harming vulnerable folks, leaving them with no other option for relief except substance use. They include the regretful, but common use of  ‘tough love’ as well as abstinence-only movements that leave the person to struggle with the weight of their own trauma on their own shoulders until they hit ‘rock bottom’ when ‘rock bottom’ may actually be death. Kat finishes with “we need a fence at the top of the cliff, not an ambulance at the bottom of it.”Off The Clock Toolbox TalkMen forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com. You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card. Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.