Justice Voices

David Risley and Guests

Eye-opening stories and commentary about crime, criminal justice, healing, and public safety. Giving voice to those with lived experience and expertise regarding the criminal justice system, healing from the trauma causing and caused by crime, restorative justice, and the need to shift from a punishment paradigm to a problem-solving paradigm of justice to achieve safer communities. Podcast website: https://justicevoices.org Host David Risley is a former career federal prosecutor and former Director of Public Safety Policy in the Illinois Governor's office https://david-risley.com Co-host for many episodes is Lynard Joiner, founder and CEO of Shifting Into New Gear (SING). Mr. Risley and Mr. Joiner first met on opposite sides of a federal courtroom on opposite sides of the law in a case in which Mr. Risley was the prosecutor and Mr. Joiner was a defendant. Now, after Mr. Joiner's return after serving 17 years in prison, they are friends and colleagues. read less

Ep. 12: Eddie Bocanegra of READI Chicago
Nov 3 2021
Ep. 12: Eddie Bocanegra of READI Chicago
Eddie Bocanegra of READI Chicago. Overcoming a youth filled with violence and the trauma of violence, and after serving 14 years in prison for a gang-related murder committed at age 18, he is now driven by a sense of duty – a covenant sense of mission – to prevent violence. With a master’s degree in social work, he serves as the Senior Director of the READI Chicago program of Heartland Alliance. In combination with the University of Chicago Crime Lab, the READI (Rapid Employment and Development Initiative) program uses a combination of cognitive behavior intervention services and paid transitional employment as interventions to proactively help people most  at risk to be victims or perpetrators of street violence – over a third of whom have been shot in the past – to create space between impulse and action and to help them channel their actions into constructive, non-violent responses to stress and invest their hope in a viable path to lawful, gainful employment. It works. Mr. Bocanegra grew up on the west side of Chicago in Little Village, in what felt at the time like a combat zone. At age 14 he joined a street gang, primarily for the same reasons he says most other young teenagers join gangs: protection, desire to get ahead in life, identity formation, sense of belonging, and respect. At age 18 he went to prison for a gang-related murder committed in retaliation for the shooting of a friend by a rival gang. (It turned out the victim was not actually from the neighborhood or even a gang member—wrong place, wrong time.) In this conversation with Justice Voices host David Risley, he provides a quick overview of READI Chicago, then turns to early experiences with violence in two places that should be safe for a child: home and school. He describes the experience at age 13 of witnessing the killing of a neighborhood youth and the trauma of watching him die – a trauma that went virtually unrecognized and totally unaddressed during those formative years. He explains why he joined a street gang at age 14, and why others join gangs, almost always in early teens: for protection, desire to get ahead in life, identity formation, sense of belonging, and respect. Now that he is the father of seven children, married to a professor of social work, he is devoting his life to helping a trauma-filled, violence-prone population achieve similar outcomes – a population in which 82% have been victims of violence and 37% have been shot at least once before intervention by READI Chicago. The discussion turns to what criminologist Lonnie Athens calls “violentization” and the results of research by Yale sociologist Elijah Anderson, author of Code of the Street, regarding the defensive need for a reputation for violence cultivated by people who w
Ep. 5: Insights from Illinois Commission on Criminal Justice and Sentencing Reform
Aug 10 2021
Ep. 5: Insights from Illinois Commission on Criminal Justice and Sentencing Reform
This episode provides a big picture overview of why our criminal justice system needs improvement, especially regarding our overuse of prisons, by exploring the gold mine of information and perspective in the 2016 report of the Illinois Commission on Criminal Justice and Sentencing Reform. The primary focus of this episode is on the background information of the report, which is divided into four subsections: The role of prisonsThe impact of high incarcerationThe resource question (or what I refer to as the resource riddle)And finally, guiding principles and operating assumptions. Among the most important points we hope you take away from this episode are: Overuse of prison as a solution to crime problems is not only ineffective and hugely expensive, but also counterproductive, resulting in more crime, not less.We can’t punish our way out of our crime problems, especially in high crime communities.Therefore, rather than persisting in our currently dominant punishment approach to criminal justice, we need to pivot to a problem-solving approach.A problem-solving approach leads naturally to replacing overuse of prison with more effective and ultimately less costly solutions best delivered at the local level.But, increasing the capacity of local communities to scale up and effectively implement those local solutions requires funding on a scale that meets the need.To think those additional funds can come from savings from sending fewer people to prison not only gets the cart before the horse, it is also mathematically unrealistic, given the deep reductions in our prison population that must precede any substantial reduction in the costs of running the prison system.That is the resource riddle, and solving it is essential to public safety and community health. With that background in mind, you’ll be a much better informed listener for our upcoming episodes featuring interviews of remarkable people who have been to prison and returned to build new lives, people whose stories need to be told, whose voices need to be heard.
Ep. 4: Violentization (part 2)
Aug 2 2021
Ep. 4: Violentization (part 2)
The root cause of violentization is trauma from chronic exposure to violence, usually beginning in childhood or adolescence. Victims of violence become victimizers. Why? Because at some point the victim of chronic violence makes the decision that this is a violent, dog-eat-dog world and that to avoid being a victim of violence one must become more violent and dangerous than potential abusers or attackers – to essentially fight fire with fire. In part 1 of this episode, we explored the five-stage adaptive process of violentization described by criminologist researcher Lonnie Athens. In this part 2 we turn to the all-important question of prevention and interventions to interrupt and even reverse the violentization process at both the individual and community levels. A disease model is used for practical perspective. To reduce serious criminal violence, reduce and effectively treat violent trauma. Host David Risley maintains the solutions to serious criminal violence fall into four buckets: trauma, jobs, incentives, and educating the public. At the highest and most difficult end of the violentization scale, ultraviolent and predatory violent people are so dangerous, resistant to de-violentization, and malignant in their effect on communities that there is rarely, if ever, a practical intervention alternative to long-term incapacitation through incarceration. But even then, treatment of violentization is sometimes possible. At the lower end of the violentization scale, interventions include: Multi-systemic therapy (MST), an example of which is the Greater Bronzeville Community Action Plan being implemented in Chicago’s historic Bronzeville neighborhood through a partnership between the University of Chicago’s Chicago Center for Youth Violence Prevention and Bright Star Community Outreach, a faith-based community service organization delivering trauma counseling and other services to individuals, households, and even local police officers.Schools, often best positioned to observe the early symptoms of violentization such as defiance and aggression, and sometimes also to deliver trauma-informed therapy and other support services, especially when the trauma arises from domestic violence or other abuse.Parenting education, especially for children raising children.Trauma-informed counseling, an example of which is the TURN Center, a program constituting an element of the Greater Bronzeville Community Action Plan. A notable feature of the TURN Center program is it is largely modeled after the program and services delivered by the Israel Trauma Center for Victims of Terrorism and War (NATAL), representatives of which have trained TURN Center personnel.Antiviolence group resocialization, which Lonnie Athens recommends for adolescents and adults in the middle stages of violentization, perhaps conducted in settings such as a youth hostel, ideally led by former violent offenders hired due to their credibility with the target audience and trained to conduct such programs. Restorative justice programs and community and problem-solving policing are also important, but deserve fuller discussion in their own episodes. In the meantime, more on those topics is found on the antiviolence strategy paper published on David Risley’s personal website at https://david-risley.com. Finally, what may be the knottiest problem of them all: the resource riddle.
Ep. 4: Violentization (part 1)
Jul 27 2021
Ep. 4: Violentization (part 1)
What makes violent people violent? The short answer is violentization. Dangerous violent people almost invariably choose to become violent to survive physically and emotionally in what they perceive as a dog-eat-dog world, a perception rooted in the chronic trauma of being the victim of repeated acts of violence, usually beginning in their homes and neighborhoods as a child and adolescent. According to Lonnie Athens, a criminologist at Seton Hall University who studies violent criminals primarily through in-depth personal interviews. “When people look at a dangerous violent criminal at the beginning of his developmental process rather than at the very end of it, they will see, perhaps unexpectedly, that the dangerous violent criminal began as a relatively benign human being for whom they would probably have more sympathy than antipathy. Perhaps more importantly, people will conclude that the creation of dangerous violent criminals is largely preventable …. Therefore, if society fails to take any significant steps to stop the process behind the creation of dangerous violent criminals, it tacitly becomes an accomplice in creating them.” As a result of his research, Athens describes five stages of a developmental process that he calls “violentization,” starting with repeated traumatic experiences of being brutalized and then being coached to decide that in a world of violence the only way to protect themselves is to fight fire with fire, to become more violent and feared than those who would otherwise victimize them. (08:49) Successful experiences with using violence to gain power over their environment can progress to the point of being, in effect, addictive. It can even become dangerous to abandon a violent persona due to the resulting vulnerability to retaliatory attack by past victims. (22:56) In short, through the process of violentization, victims of violence become victimizers in a spiral of violence that can spread throughout a community like a virus. In part 2 of this episode, we will explore Athens’ observations and thinking regarding violentization of communities and his recommendations for interventions at both the individual and community levels.
Ep 3b: Donna Lomelino (Part Two)
Jul 21 2021
Ep 3b: Donna Lomelino (Part Two)
Unless we understand the psychological impact of chronic abuse on victims, we can fail them. Even worse, we can misjudge them, including misjudge them in court. That’s why this part 2 of Donna Lomelino’s story is so important and instructive.  This second part of this episode has five sections, each of which is important and packed with insights.  Please stick with us and hear Donna out, even if that means listening to her story and hearing her voice one segment at a time.  The first 12 minutes includes some highlight excerpts from the full interview, followed by comments by host David Risley about understanding the psychological impact of chronic abuse on victims, including the development of a strong protective attachment by victims to their abusers as a variation of the so-called Stockholm syndrome, an attachment Donna later describes as an addiction. In the first segment of the full conversation (12:09), we pick up where we left off in part 1 and hear more of Donna’s experience being in the psychological prison of abuse as she struggles to describe what she was thinking and experiencing when she received the news that her abusive fiancé had beaten her 8-year-old son to death while she was away living and working in another state. Even today she struggles to understand and explain why back then she felt near panic to avoid losing her fiancé even though he had just killed her son, a reaction that was among the most damning evidence of a complicit mental state when she was tried and convicted as an accomplice to her son’s murder. Donna next (30:35) shares her experience while being in physical prisons of concrete and steel, including her surprising reflection that, for her, despite its traumas prison was a sanctuary, a place where for the first time in her life she felt safe. She describes how that freed her to, over time, break free from her psychological imprisonment.   She then (58:07) relates her experience reentering community life after release from prison, including struggling to find employment as a convicted felon, followed by a conversation about what Donna is doing and what she has become now. Next (01:20:48), Donna shares her insightful, first-hand observations about needed policy and practice changes regarding victims of abuse. During this segment, Donna and co-host Lynard Joiner reflect on parallels between their prison and reentry experiences and Donna passionately shares her views about the need to rescue children from abusive households much sooner and more aggressively than is typically the case. The episode ends (01:37:20) with Donna’s touching and deeply reflective message from the Donna of today to the Donna of her childhood and youth. We again thank the Illinois Public Health Association for its support for this program.
Ep 03a: Donna Lomelino (Part 1)
Jun 20 2021
Ep 03a: Donna Lomelino (Part 1)
This episode of Justice Voices will be emotionally intense.  Facing realities involved in criminal justice policy sometimes is, including facing the reality of what a lifetime of abuse and exploitation can do to people. Some prisons are physical, made of concrete and steel. Other prisons are psychological. People in physical prisons know that they are imprisoned. People in psychological prisons, however, including women and children trapped in abusive domestic relationships, may not only deny their imprisonment to themselves and others, but even fight off efforts by family, friends, police, and prosecutors to rescue them from a dangerous, sometimes even deadly situation. It’s one thing to observe the psychological imprisonment of victims of abuse from the outside. It’s quite another to have the opportunity to see it from the inside, through the eyes of a victim of a lifetime of abuse. Today’s episode of Justice Voices will give you that inside opportunity.  In this part 1 of a two-part episode, you’ll meet Donna Lomelino, of Springfield, Illinois, who works with a faith-based organization helping homeless women and children who are victims of abuse. Ms. Lomelino is a wonderful, compassionate woman with a strong sense of mission.  Talking to her today you’d likely never suspect that she, herself, was a victim of a lifetime of abuse from her childhood until the time as a young adult when she was sent to prison for a horrific crime committed by an abusive boyfriend, a crime committed while she was absent and had been absent for a couple of weeks while working out of state, a crime that ripped her heart out, but for which she was nevertheless held criminally accountable under Illinois law as interpreted and applied by a prosecutor and judges. How could that be you may ask? Indeed. Good question. Part 2 of this episode will cover Donna’s experience in prison, including how she was one of many women incarcerated there who are victims of abuse, some of whom were also being punished for crimes committed by their abusers.  Most importantly, part 2 will cover who Donna Lomelino became, who she is today, and what made all the difference. In this and hopefully many future episodes, host David Risley is joined co-host Lynard Joiner, one of Mr. Risley’s former defendants, whose own story is told in episodes 1 and 2 of this program. * Justice Voices website: https://justicevoices.org* SING website: https://ShiftingIntoNewGear.org