In part 2 of our conversation with Nate Bell, Glen and April explore with him his work on the Freedom of Information law in Arkansas, his ideas on improving good government, and his suggested remedies for the extreme political polarization currently seen in our state and the nation. While describing himself as "bull-headed" in his political views, he values facts and is prepared to hear others who can provide legitimate information that may support an alternative view. His assessment of Arkansas's political environment now is one that has been unduly influenced by people on the extreme ends of political ideology, which he attributes to our primary system. He offers several concrete suggestions for alternatives that would lead to governmental actions more in line with the majority of Arkansans.

Nate Bell, a former Arkansas Republican legislator turned "politically homeless" and a consultant currently active in seeking to enshrine Arkansas's Freedom of Information law into the state constitution, sits down with Glen and April. Nate advocates for good government in his work, and he also consults on commercial and off-grid solar power projects.  A self-described Reagan conservative, he draws a sharp contrast between his views and those currently seen in Arkansas's Republican community. As a result, he is working closely with a wide variety of Arkansans who differ strongly with him in some areas but find common ground  in key areas such as governmental transparency and educational reform.

In this second part of our conversation with Marquis Hunt, we explore his life as a musician, and he offers sage advice on how to work across divides in his community. He offers advice such as "hate that which is not love" and points out how often these days, some divisive elements are targeting as "bad" such currently central points in the culture wars as being black, gay, transgender, etc.  He focuses on finding ways to neutralize the efforts of those who try to vilify people who are different, which he associates with a form of hostage-taking. Drawing a distinction between those who design division societally and those who are caught up in this designed divisiveness, unaware that they are "unwilling co-conspirators," he emphasizes the importance of our approaching these two sources differently. He points out how we are built to handle toxicity in both physical, emotional, and more metaphysical ways as a way to empower us and offer a sense that we can make a difference.  Marquis also talks about humility, the importance of being honest with oneself, and being in right relationship with oneself and others. The importance of appropriate boundaries turns out to be a rather widely encompassing notion that he uses, with concrete examples, that can help us "love anyway."  His assertion is that everything he does, whether in music or in his work in the community, is in essence, listening and breathing, something he learned in his musical pursuits.

Glen & April talk with Marquis Hunt, an eclectic community leader who is also a  talented saxophonist and recording artist, interfaith leader, author and thought leader. In this first part of the conversation, Marquis traces his origins in his upraising in Arkansas as a Christian, and how it has influenced his current views and work.  He also explores his roles in our community as a person of faith who reaches across religious boundaries, as he shares some of his key notions about the intersection of personal morality and spirituality. His creation of an online program - The Flow - during the COVID pandemic led him to numerous conversations in response to the racially tinged environment that arose after the George Floyd and related incidents. He describes a public event at that time in which he took a conciliatory approach to those who often are in position, such as law enforcement, people of color, politicians, and others. Marquis shares his approach to dealing with those who are different, how one can respond with love despite being treated at times with bias or other forms of mistreatment. You'll find intriguing his comparisons of his work as a jazz musician with approaches to interacting with others in potentially difficult situations.

Rex Nelson is a veteran journalist who also served in key roles in Governor Mike Huckabee's administration. In this interview with Rex (a single, 45-minute episode), we hear his take on the uniqueness of Arkansas and how it provides him a rich depth of topics for his columns, which include historical, cultural, political and other coverage of life in Arkansas. Some recent developments in the state are seen as offering Arkansas an important opportunity to grow economically and culturally, although he describes some concerns from current political developments in the state that may fail to take advantage of this moment.  A long-time Republican, Rex explains his recent criticisms of the state and national Republican party and his desire for a return to what was historically considered conservative philosophy. He outlines key current political movements and media developments that he sees as jeopardizing our democracy and reviews some key potential efforts that could help move us back to a more healthy and effective democracy. He also contrasts how Mike Huckabee's governorship functioned with how the governor's daughter and current governor, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, has performed so far as governor. Tips are offered for how to get along with those who have differing political philosophies, and he suggests some areas of bipartisan agreement that have the potential to improve the current polarized state of Arkansas politics.

In this second part of our interview with John Brummett, April and Glen hear John assert that "a steady, committed effort to human dialog" is a potential antidote to polarization. Currently, he views our nation as a "tied country" where the political math leads politicians to feed on division and pandering to the base of each party, while demonizing the other side. His solution is that moderates must become a movement on their own. The current state of the media, which is discussed in some detail, makes a movement from the middle particularly tough, as he feels our politics have become largely nationalized. Unfortunately, John feels this reality has made state and local news sources less relevant and influential in the community. Options for maintaining a healthy “media diet” are discussed. In addition to pushing for a more involved moderate element in this country, John advocates for "a movement for human connectedness." Finally, John sheds light on the evolution of his alter ego “Bubba” in his columns.

Glen and April interview John Brummett, prominent long-time Arkansas journalist and columnist for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. John describes his early family life as a pivotal influence, and he relates an instance when he was criticized in his family's church for an article he wrote, and how his family responded. Also, he noted that while he generally did very well in elementary school, there was one area of conduct in which he persistently got poor ratings, and how this may explain his subsequent success in his career choice. Although he is widely viewed as liberal, John says he now is "formerly liberal, never conservative" and that he has disdain for extremes on both sides of the political spectrum (for example, he views some extreme leftists as "illiberal"). At this point, he believes neither main party now serves our country well. Instead, he advocates for a "muscular moderation" by persons in the broad center, whether right or left leaning. A key for him in doing this is via the strength of human connection.

In this second part of our interview with Kathy Webb, Little Rock city board member and longtime community activist in hunger, LGBTQ, and other issues, Glen & April learn ways Kathy feels we can each help manage emotion and tribalism, in order to better work toward the common good. She mentions several areas in which she sees opportunities for bipartisan agreement or compromise, including public safety and crime, as well as homelessness. She shares her hopes and concerns for Arkansas, and then she concludes with a story about a powerful moment for her that involved famous (and now recently deceased) rock and R&B singer Tina Turner.

Glen & April interview Kathy Webb, Little Rock city board member and longtime community activist in hunger, LGBTQ, and other issues. In the first part of our interview, Kathy describes her early influences on her political views and activities as related to being raised as a "PK" or preacher's kid. Later, she came to identify with the feminist movement, and she also early on recognized the relative lack of opportunities for role models for gay/lesbian youth. All of these experiences, she feels, led her to grow and learn how to deal with being different from others. Later in her life when she was elected multiple times to the Arkansas legislature, she gained additional insight into how building relationships and compromise was critical to being effective.  A recent influence was a book she read by author Monica Guzman (a previous guest on our podcast), who emphasizes curiosity as a way to reduce negative emotion and hostility in discussions, while building a closer relationship. She also described some work she and others have done in Arkansas recently to work toward civil discourse in the community, something she feels Braver Angels Arkansas can help promote.

In the second part of our interview with Lisa McNeir, retired psychologist & Braver Angels Arkansas alliance co-chair, Glen & April hear how Lisa's past experience as a school teacher suggests to her the value of including early education about human differences as important.  She explains how this could be done via training of teachers to take advantage of daily opportunities in the classroom with students to promote tolerance and empathy, not necessarily as a specific course. Although Braver Angels promotes civility, she also points out ways that civility and politeness can serve as a cover for cruelty and to reduce chances for compromise if not utilized in good faith. As a former psychologist, she talks about the potential for teaching everyone basic emotion regulation skills as another avenue to help reduce the innate tendency to make political decisions based on largely unrecognized emotional/tribal factors. For Lisa, the critical issue in dealing with polarization is "what we are capable of vs what we choose to do." She sees connection with others as foundational if we are to improve our work in our country's political environment.

In this first interview with Lisa McNeir, retired psychologist & Braver Angels Arkansas alliance co-chair, Glen & April hear how Lisa’s positive impression with Braver Angel's training and approach in helping prepare its activists influenced her decision to help her local alliance carry out its mission. She points out the vulnerability many feel in speaking up about political views as an impediment to confronting toxic polarization. However, she suggests skills taught in Braver Angels, along with self-awareness and determination to be a better human being, can overcome this obstacle. She also advocates early education about human differences as a long-term approach with merit. While she views social media as a "beast" in worsening tribalism, she also feels each side has important contributions. For example, she sees the liberal view as "bringing people together" as a central principle.

In part 2 of our interview, Glen and April discuss with Dr. Nitin Agarwal, professor and chair of the Information Sciences department at University of Arkansas at Little Rock, what he has learned about how bad actors around the world plan and implement influence operations online, including through information environment manipulation, mis/disinformation and propaganda campaigns.  Dr. Agarwal explains how "social cyber forensics" is used to investigate "mal-information" online, how "adversarial AI" is being increasingly used in social media to negatively impact countries by other nation-states or groups who seek to sow discord in their enemies' culture, and the impact this has on democracies. His work with Arkansas government officials, the US defense establishment, and NATO has led his group to provide important insights into the potential harm that certain social media influence operations can cause, as well as to suggest ways to combat these destructive efforts. Nitin concludes with several ideas about how individuals, media platforms, and government can help work against these negative influence operations.

Glen and April welcome University of Arkansas at Little Rock professor Dr. Nitin Agarwal, the Jerry L. Maulden-Entergy Chair & Distinguished Professor in the UA-Little Rock Information Science Department. Dr. Agarwal is also the Director of the Collaboratorium for Social Media and Online Behavioral Studies (COSMOS). His work focuses on influence operations online, information environment manipulation, mis/disinformation and propaganda campaigns that primarily originate outside the US and which potentially impact US defense strategic interests. As a subject matter expert on how social media is used to impact people and societies, such as through promoting toxic polarization and other negative consequences, Dr. Agarwal was interviewed to help us better understand what he and his team have found through his research about the ways that social media is being used in nefarious ways around the world. We also explore with him ways to improve our interactions with social media in our culture. In this first episode, Nitin describes the "good, bad and ugly" behaviors on social media, tactics, techniques and procedures used for online influence campaigns, and how social media, which originated with high hopes for positive use in society, has gone down a dark path in many ways currently.

In this second part of Glen White's interview with Braver Angels Arkansas leaders April Chatham-Carpenter & Ray Hanley about their experiences at the 2023  Braver Angels National Convention, we hear April and Ray share their thoughts about the struggles they and most of us have in "walking the walk" in their work with Braver Angels.  Maintaining a respectful approach to one's conversations, social media interactions, and other means of interaction with people of differing political views turns out the be a challenge for all of us. Yet both talk about examples of positive outcomes when using the skills and approaches espoused by Braver Angels, and the potential benefits of persisting even when our passion for advocating for our beliefs puts us in potential conflict with others. Based on what they learned during the convention, they provide some ideas about next steps for Braver Angels in Arkansas.

Glen White interviews Braver Angels Arkansas leaders April Chatham-Carpenter & Ray Hanley about their experiences at the 2023 Braver Angels National Convention.  In this first of two episodes, Ray provides a background on the historic nature of the setting of the convention, while April describes the wide variety of events and activities that made up the first in-person convention since the COVID pandemic.  "A Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, and a Wiccan walk into a convention..." - Sound like a bad joke? Nope, it's more like one of the more notable experiences Ray describes from his time at the convention. For music fans, April tells us about some of the musical moments during the convention, which included a group that combines hip-hop and bluegrass. Talk about your reaching across divides!

In part 2 of our interview with Dr. Rebecca Glazier, Professor in UA-Little Rock's school of Public Affairs, Rebecca reveals strategies she employs for dealing with difficult, rigid people in her attempts to bridge differences, including "cross-cutting," as ways to build more positive relationships and interactions. An example is described in how a potentially difficult conversation about immigration led to finding several elements of common ground. Rebecca views religion as one of several potential means for bringing the right and left politically toward common ground. She used this approach in a "Race and Faith" summit of faith-based leaders in the community, and she outlines some of the both difficult and encouraging moments from that summit. Various negative societal influences, such as social media, gerrymandering, and others are described in terms of their tendency to increase polarization, as well as positive alternative strategies for broadening one's view of their "in-group." Rebecca points out how politicians are "single-minded seekers of re-election" and the implications of that reality on compromise as well as how to respond. She then concludes with additional ideas for how to reduce defensiveness when having political discussions.

Dr. Rebecca Glazier, Professor in UA-Little Rock's school of Public Affairs, is interviewed about her work, including research with various faith communities in central Arkansas and their interests in community involvement. She works with her students and the community in trying to explore sources of division and polarization, as well as ways of reducing those tendencies. A key goal of her work is to learn more about the impact of religion, social identity and other factors that may contribute to division in the congregations and community. Initial work revealed a strong interest on the part of many congregations to look specifically at race as a topic that needs better understanding for overcoming tensions and silos in the community.  Rebecca explores both positive and negative impact of religion in various areas, through a discussion of something she calls "ambivalence of the sacred." She also shares some of her classroom strategies for helping her class be a safe environment for having potentially difficult discussions for the students.

In part two of our interview with Vic Snyder, he encourages citizens to not give up on their elected representatives.  Vic expresses concerns about current Arkansas politics becoming more extreme than most voters, but he recognizes that campaigning often leads candidates to go to the extreme views of their party in order to get elected.  However, when they get elected, they realize that governing isn't as easy as their campaigning views portrayed. Vic expresses concern about the influence of big money in politics, which can pose a danger to our democracy, the integrity of our elections, and our quality of life. He also shares lessons from his past involvement in the impeachment proceedings of Bill Clinton and how they might apply in today’s political environment.

Glen and April sat down with former congressman from Arkansas 2nd district Vic Snyder recently. In this first episode, hear Vic’s views of bipartisan possibilities in Congress, based on his experiences as a congressman in the past. Vic describes some of the key things that he believes have contributed to the worsening of relationships in Congress.  He also describes some potential areas of common ground that should be possible for Congress.  Vic worked early in his career with Republicans, and in this interview, he expresses strong concerns about identifying too heavily with one party, and he expresses serious concerns about our current struggles in government.  Vic, in his retirement, also is working on a fundraising initiative for a project recognizing the 1865 explosion and sinking of the Sultana steamboat, which was the largest maritime disaster in US history at that time.

In this 2nd part of our interview with Braver Angels activist Rita Chisum, we hear Rita's thoughts about Truth (big T) versus truth (little t) and the importance of maintaining humility in one's beliefs about what we see as true.  She explains some concerns she has about stereotypes some Blues may have about Reds, quotes Maya Angelou, and talks about her hopes for where Arkansas may be headed. She ends with strong assertions about respecting, listening to, and finding good in all people, not just those of the same political or religious persuasion.