RevOps FM

Justin Norris

This podcast is your weekly masterclass on becoming a better revenue operator. We challenge conventional wisdom and dig into what actually works for building predictable revenue at scale. For show notes and extra resources, visit https://revops.fm/show Key topics include: marketing technology, sales technology, marketing operations, sales operations, process optimization, team structure, planning, reporting, forecasting, workflow automation, and GTM strategy. read less
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Episodes

How to Implement a Demand Creation Strategy - Sam Kuehnle
5d ago
How to Implement a Demand Creation Strategy - Sam Kuehnle
More and more marketers are embracing demand creation as a strategy, at least in principle. But making a fundamental GTM change is HARD. You need to build executive alignment, define new KPIs, identify how to educate your target audience, fine-tune your content engine, and a whole lot more. As VP of Demand Gen at Refine Labs, Sam Kuehnle has been a big part of the movement evangelizing a shift from lead gen to demand gen and has helped many companies make the transition. Now he's leading a similar shift as an in-house marketing leader. We go deep into what it takes to actually implement this strategy in practice, go beyond leads, and deliver real revenue impact. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Sam Kuehnle is VP of Marketing at Loxo, the Talent Intelligence Platform. From working in-house at a publicly-traded company, to advising seed stage companies trying to figure out how to crack their first $1M in ARR, to everything in-between, Sam is passionate about learning and sharing better ways to do marketing. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:37] - Sam’s marketing experience before Refine Labs [06:33] - Joining Refine Labs[08:11] - Refine Labs onboarding process[10:21] - A typical engagement + aligning with customer teams[13:36] - How to communicate a demand creation strategy[20:26] - Identifying the right mix of channels / platforms [25:02] - Leading indicators for demand creation[26:45] - Brand awareness vs. demand creation[31:32] - Evolution during Sam’s tenure at Refine[33:33] - The band-wagon effect and how to identify the best practices of tomorrow[35:11] - Joining Loxo [37:10] - Sam’s first priorities after going in house [41:38] - LinkedIn ad strategy[45:09] - Experiments with Connected TV[51:35] - ChatGPT as a marketing channelResource LinksSam's Marketing Meditations - Sam's Substack Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Lessons from a World-Class Seller - Brian LaManna
Apr 8 2024
Lessons from a World-Class Seller - Brian LaManna
I've worked with a bunch of different sellers. Some were good. Some not so much. But one or two were truly next level.They had consistently better results. They brought in bigger deals. They closed accounts no one else could. And they just seemed to "get it" in a different way. They were switched on—you didn't need to tell them what to do. Whatever challenge you threw at them, they found a way. They seemed built just a little bit differently than other people on the team.I've always been curious about what makes those great sellers great.To help answer that question, I sat down with true superstar of the sales world, 5x President's Club winner Brian LaManna, Strategic AE at Gong. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Brian LaManna is a Strategic Account Executive at Gong and Founder of Closed Won, where he offers resources and playbooks for sellers. He is a 5x President's Club winner and regularly achieves 200%+ of quota. https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlamanna/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - Role of a seller in the revenue process[03:11] - Sales is not convincing[04:03] - Defusing prospect defensiveness[05:48] - When to break the sales process[07:21] - Are good sellers born or made? [09:26] - Attributes of a great seller[11:25] - Developing a “CEO” mindset[13:17] - Cultivating real relationships with customers[16:11] - Mindsets, strategies, and routines [24:18] - Benefits of selling Gong[25:28] - The sales / sales ops relationship[28:53] - How ops can get sellers to cooperate[31:45] - What does Gong’s RevOps team do well? [33:43] - Why AEs should always be prospecting[39:02] - Current state of outbound [41:39] - Live example: creating a tailored cold email[44:47] - Personalization vs. relevance[46:45] - How sellers can win at “social selling”Resource LinksClosed Won | Systematizing OutboundLinkedIn Post: Personalization vs. Relevance Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
A Deep Dive into Customer Success Operations - Stephen McBride
Apr 1 2024
A Deep Dive into Customer Success Operations - Stephen McBride
SaaS companies spent the past decade optimizing for growth and customer acquisition at all costs. For many, the plan to actually retain and grow those customers has been foggy.Now with many businesses facing the reality of massive churn, it's become incredibly clear that helping customers succeed is just as important as acquiring them in the first place.So we're here today to discuss the third leg of the RevOps stool: customer success ops, and by extension, the discipline of customer success as well.CS Ops doesn't get as much love or attention as marketing or sales ops—one of my past guests jokingly referred to CS Ops as the "red-headed step-child" of RevOps. But I think, and hope, this is starting to evolve.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Stephen McBride is a Customer Success and CS Ops leader dedicated to helping companies grow better. His career has spanned in-house and consulting roles, and he’s spent over seven years in total at Hubspot, five of them as a leader in their Customer Success Org. He recently returned to the agency world with Go Nimbly as a RevOps Delivery Director. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcbridest/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Defining the role of customer success[02:51] - Role of CS in a PLG motion[03:37] - Strategies of a great CS team[06:00] - CS strategy at Hubspot[07:56] - Why do some big companies neglect CS?[09:29] - CS as cost center vs. growth driver[11:38] - Balancing the mindset of customer support vs. upselling[14:09] - Defining the mission of your CS team[15:36] - CS as a point of leverage in the customer experience[17:28] - Impact of macro-economic factors on CS strategies[20:06] - Identifying the impact of CS, factors you can A/B test[21:35] - Scope and mission of CS Operations [23:23] - CS Ops as a its own function vs. part of RevOps[29:09] - Who should a unified RevOps function report to?[31:52] - CS Ops vs. MOPS and SOPS[34:42] - CS tools and systems[40:19] - A best-in-class CS tech stack[42:34] - Churn forecasting[44:35] - Getting truly useful health scores[48:34] - Reducing churn Resource LinksNet Revenue Retention Hub - Go Nimbly - Go Nimbly's excellent hub on NRR and CS topics. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
The GTM Systems Product Manager - Josh Hill
Mar 25 2024
The GTM Systems Product Manager - Josh Hill
Prioritization is probably the biggest challenge for ops teams. Say yes to everything—you pretty quickly become a service department. Set your own priorities without input from the business—you can quickly find yourself irrelevant, even out of a job.The best model that I've seen for tackling this problem is what we could call the product management approach to managing MarTech. This is where you effectively treat your stack as an internal product and ops as a product management team working on delivering features for internal customers. Today's guest has practiced this approach at enterprise scale, with an ops team dozens strong. Josh Hill shares his insights and lessons learned, as well as his journey as one of the earliest and well-recognized experts in the Marketo community. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Josh Hill is a GTM operations and systems executive who builds revenue accelerating GTM platforms, global teams, and processes in partnership with Product, Sales, and Marketing. He has a strong track record of turning business strategies into live enterprise capabilities and impactful customer experiences. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jhill2/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:37] - Josh’s professional journey[04:19] - Development of automation pro as a professional identity[06:48] - Scope and scale of the teams Josh led[08:54] - Definition of a product management approach to martech[15:45] - Should marketing ops be oriented around business impact? [21:03] - Reasons why ops teams need to say “no” sometimes[27:38] - Solving for the internal vs. external customer [30:39] - Asking tough questions about adoption and ROI [33:53] - Building your roadmap [35:53] - Communicating your roadmap internally[40:10] - Cultivating resolve around prioritization and triaging requests[42:43] - How to transition to a product management approach Resource Links Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Is Marketing Mix Modelling the future of B2B analytics? - Mark Stouse
Mar 19 2024
Is Marketing Mix Modelling the future of B2B analytics? - Mark Stouse
Every marketing team  wants attribution. But weirdly, it's often not that satisfying when they actually get it. I led many multi-touch attribution projects as a consultant, and we got really good at implementing tools, creating taxonomies, and making sure that data was clean.But I found that when you actually showed these reports to a C-level executive, it was usually kind of underwhelming. The data didn't always pass the common sense test. Today's guest thinks there's a better way — Marketing Mix Modelling. It's basically the application of mathematical techniques to model relationships between different variables. However, technology now enables it to happen faster and more cost-effectively than ever before. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Stouse is CEO of ProofAnalytics.AI. With over 26 years of experience in marketing communications and strategy, he has a passion for transforming GTM performance with data-driven insights and agile decision making. Prior to founding Proof, Mark was CMO at Honeywell Aerospace, CCO at BMC Software, and a marketing leader at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstouse/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:15] - Clarifying the acronym “MMM”[02:39] - Mark’s background and how he founded Proof Analytics [07:57] - Limitations of multi-touch attribution (“MTA”)[14:16] - How MMM avoids the shortcomings of MTA[16:42] - The Fischer Price definition of MMM[19:56] - Demand vs. brand investments and their impact[24:09] - A/B vs. multivariate regression[25:21] - MMM is aggregate modelling, no reliance on PII[27:12] - Simple explanation of multi-variate regression[30:29] - Incorporating third-party data sources[31:48] - Historical ROI vs. forecasted ROI[32:52] - Is MMM just for enterprise?[34:51] - Marketing as a non-linear multiplier[38:02] - Getting started with MMM[41:18] - Updating models to include new data sources[42:07] - Competition in the marketing analytics space[44:41] - B2C marketing is more advanced in usage of multi-variate regressionResource LinksProof Analytics - Official SiteEconometrics // Lecture 1: Introduction Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Building a Next-Gen Composable Martech Stack - Niels Fogt
Mar 13 2024
Building a Next-Gen Composable Martech Stack - Niels Fogt
For most of us in B2B, the marketing automation platform - aka "MAP" - is the anchoring piece of technology in the martech stack.When I was first buying a MAP, there were way more options than today, but generally they all bundled a few core features together — sending emails, segmenting audiences, and creating workflows.But is there a reason why you need to do your lifecycle processing in the same tool that you send emails with? What does a Martech stack look like where these roles are distributed differently?Today's guest has answered that question and built an elegant and high-performing composable stack.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Niels Fogt is Sr. Director, Automation Solutions at tray.io. He's led and participated in a wide variety of initiatives within growth and marketing. Strong technical acumen. UX roots.https://www.linkedin.com/in/uxstrategist/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[02:31] - Niels’ journey as a martech architect [06:06] - Challenges with the traditional martech stack[09:13] - Developer mindsets and service-oriented architecture[12:10] - Applying automation capabilities across the organization[14:09] - Components of Tray’s martech stack[15:02] - The role of a customer journey tool[16:07] - Centralized lead processing in Tray[17:23] - Event collection[19:09] - Streaming events into automation tool vs. data warehouse [22:21] - Native vs. custom integrations[29:15] - Benefits of having a workflow layer in Tray vs. in a MAP[32:02] - Economics of using an iPaaS as a workflow layer[34:50] - Composable martech stacks [39:03] - Skillsets needed to operate a composable stack[40:01] - Future capabilities[41:25] - Relationship to business stakeholdersResource LinksWhy low code is the future of lead management (and RevOps)Introduction to the lead processing pipeline on Tray.ioOpen source RevOps: Taking a closer look at the first few steps of the lead processing pipeline Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
AI, Growth Mindset, and the Evolution of SDRs - Kyle Coleman
Mar 3 2024
AI, Growth Mindset, and the Evolution of SDRs - Kyle Coleman
Kyle Coleman is one of the most prominent revenue leaders on LinkedIn and a long-time champion of sales development. So there was no one better to chat with about the future of the SDR function, which some claim is facing imminent demise... Spoiler alert: Kyle doesn't share that view. But he DOES think that it needs to change. We look at how sales development will evolve in 2024 and beyond, discuss his SDR to 2-time-CMO journey, and examine how AI will impact sellers and increase productivity.Perhaps most importantly, we also go deep into the mindsets, routines, and strategies Kyle has used to enable his professional growth and productivity. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Kyle Coleman is a sales and Marketing leader with a passion for people development, identifying and solving problems, creating and optimizing processes, and unifying departments across the revenue org. He's currently the CMO at Copy.ai and was previously CMO at Clari. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyletcoleman/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - Role of SDRs in B2B GTM[04:47] - Strategic partnership between SDRs and AEs[07:43] - How does a junior SDR offer value to an executive? [11:20] - Qualities and skills of a good SDR[14:05] - Providing space for SDR autonomy[16:28] - Replacing SDRs with AI?[19:25] - Kyle’s mindset for professional success[24:21] - Importance of documentation[26:08] - Figuring out what to say “no” to[28:52] - Keeping calm in the face of big targets[31:43] - Daily routines and prioritization[35:32] - Benefits of being a LinkedIn creator[39:38] - Core job of a marketing leader[41:35] - Why Kyle joined Copy.ai[43:19] - Core capabilities of the platform[49:29] - Kyle’s predictions on the future of AI in GTMThanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. We all know that outbound is really tough. Now imagine a world where you’re reaching people who know your product, love your product, and are actually happy to hear from you. UserGems makes that a reality. They identify your customers and champions who change jobs and automatically push new contacts to your CRM so your team can follow up. If you’re not reaching out to customer job changers, you’re missing opportunities. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners. Try UserGems Resource LinksThe only AI platform purpose-built for outcomes - Copy.ai official website Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Navigating the World of Marketing Ops Consulting - Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan
Feb 27 2024
Navigating the World of Marketing Ops Consulting - Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan
There comes a time in every marketing ops professional's life when they wonder if the grind of an in-house job is worth it after all. Whether it's politics, overwork, lack of resources, lack of respect, a toxic boss, or one of a million other things...it might make you think, "maybe I'd be happier as a consultant."But is the grass actually greener? What does it take to get started in consulting? Are you better off at an agency or as an independent? How do you find clients? To answer these questions (and many more), I'm joined by Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan. With over 20 years of consulting experience between us, we have a no-holds-barred discussion on the pros and cons and how to succeed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's GuestsLauren and Sydney are co-founders of EMMIE Collective - a for-hire collective of the most sought-after independent consultants and boutique firms in the marketing ops and ops adjacent space - and co-hosts of the Pretty Funny Business podcast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenaquilino/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydneymulligan/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:08] - Origin story of EMMIE Collective [10:45] - Has the reality of the agency model met their expectations? [12:48] - Becoming an independent consultant vs. joining an agency[15:05] - The experience of transitioning from in-house to consultant[17:20] - In-house career growth limitations for technical marketing ops[18:34] - Challenges of moving from an IC to a manager[21:44] - Finding clients and financial planning as a consultant[24:16] - Layoffs pushing people into consulting[26:42] - Commercial arrangements - hourly vs. project vs. retainer[28:50] - Challenges scoping fixed bid projects[30:23] - Fractional consulting models[32:38] - How to ensure quality / consistency with a team of independents[36:57] - Client management skills and dealing with challenging clients[41:45] - The tattoo booth at MOps-ApaloozaResource LinksEMMIE Collective Official SitePretty Funny Business: The Podcast Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Community-Led Growth (or, How to Host a Million-Dollar Event) - Mike Rizzo
Feb 20 2024
Community-Led Growth (or, How to Host a Million-Dollar Event) - Mike Rizzo
B2B communities are everywhere these days. It's easy to forget that 10 years ago, it wasn't nearly so easy to connect with peers, ask for unfiltered recommendations, celebrate wins, and commiserate about dumpster fires.Mike Rizzo has made community his career - both in developing B2B customer communities and in building the top community of practice for marketing operations. In this episode, we examine how B2B companies can leverage community as part of their GTM strategy, what makes a community tick, and the inside scoop on what it took to host MOps-Apalooza. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mike Rizzo is a career marketing operations professional passionate about community. In 2017 he also founded the growing community of MO Pros - a place where thousands of Marketing Operations Professionals connect, collaborate and help elevate the practice of Marketing Ops. He is also the co-host of the podcast called Ops Cast.https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedrizzo/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:42] - Why start a MOPS community? [05:17] - Community is like a product[08:40] - Each community is a vibe[10:40] - Maturity of marketing ops vs. sales ops[16:37] - Lack of strategic MOPS leadership roles in the marketplace[19:13] - MOPS pros should be like product managers[21:08] - Community-led as a GTM motion[25:40] - Balancing community and economic concerns[33:22] - MOps-Apalooza[39:59] - What motivated Mike to put on the event?[42:26] - The future of marketing operationsResource Links#1 Marketing Ops Community & Private Network | MO Pros - Official site for the MO Pros communityOps Cast - The Ops Cast podcastMOps-Apalooza 2024 - Marketing Ops - Website for MOps-Apalooza 2024 Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
A Scalable Solution to B2B Funnel Tracking - Charlie Saunders
Feb 11 2024
A Scalable Solution to B2B Funnel Tracking - Charlie Saunders
Every B2B company has a funnel tracking process. And quite often, that process is seriously limited or broken.Leads get lost, data is inaccurate, and businesses struggle to produce insights and accurate reporting.I've seen this first hand, and so has this week's guest - Charlie Saunders. We've both spent years as consultants fixing broken funnels. In this episode, we talk about the many reasons funnel tracking goes wrong and dive deep into the architecture of the scalable solution Charlie's team has developed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Charlie Saunders is co-founder and the Chief Revenue & Operations Officer at CS2, where he builds Revenue Growth Architecture for growth-stage B2B tech companies that powers efficient and predictable revenue growth.https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliesaunders/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:35] - Why funnel tracking matters[05:05] - How funnel metrics and attribution interact[08:21] - Key funnel metrics[10:18] - Accuracy vs. perfection in funnel tracking[14:06] - Why we can’t rely just on a Lead Status field[19:03] - Using a Salesforce custom object for funnel tracking[20:23] - Explanation of using a lifecycle campaign to bridge leads and contacts[21:01] - Should everyone start with a custom object?[26:55] - Why a custom object doesn’t need to be that intensive to implement[29:34] - Custom object impact on sales process and UX[33:25] - Tipping point = the initiation of the sales process[34:58] - Multiple tipping point types[36:14] - Different stages in the pre-pipeline section of the funnel[39:28] - Build vs. buy when considering a custom object solution[40:38] - You need a strong foundation for any funnel tracking to work[42:56] - Deeper discussion on attribution[45:47] - Significance of the the "tipping point" touchResource LinksCS2 | B2B Marketing & Revenue Operations Consulting - Official CS2 website. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Legends of GTM: Eloqua's Founder Talks Category Creation - Mark Organ
Feb 6 2024
Legends of GTM: Eloqua's Founder Talks Category Creation - Mark Organ
Many entrepreneurs dream of creating categories. But few have actually done it - much less built a category worth billions of dollars. Mark Organ is one of those rare few. As founding CEO of Eloqua, he pioneered marketing automation in the early 2000s, paving the way for other players and selling to Oracle for nearly $900 million. Mark and I chat through how he co-founded Eloqua, the pivots and experiments needed to achieve product-market fit, and how category creators may be wired a bit differently. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Organ is the founding CEO of Eloqua (the first successful marketing automation platform) and Influitive. His greatest professional passions include creating new billion-dollar categories in technology and developing new leaders. Today he helps CEOs achieve their full potential in their businesses and their lives as the CEO of Categorynauts.https://www.linkedin.com/in/markorgan/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:05] - Founding Eloqua and marketing automation[07:47] - Origin of the lead generation playbook[10:39] - Getting to product-market fit[16:03] - Genesis of lead scoring[19:08] - Toolkit software vs. opinionated software[24:25] - Pivots and brushes with death are the norm[27:09] - When is it right to build a category?[30:14] - Building a category around an under-served hero[33:51] - Creating a category for the second time[36:42] - Challenges with churn at Influitive[41:05] - Alternatives to VC funding in SaaSResource LinksCategorynauts - Categorynauts is the leading global community of category creating leaders, helping CEOs looking to discover, develop and dominate their category. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
The Rise of PLG and the Next Gen of Marketing Automation - Dave Rigotti
Jan 28 2024
The Rise of PLG and the Next Gen of Marketing Automation - Dave Rigotti
Historically, Product-led Growth (PLG) companies have been underserved. Marketing automation platforms, growth playbooks, reporting frameworks, and “best practices” have been largely designed around the needs of their sales-led cousins. But PLG has had a renaissance in the past few years, and all that's changed. PLG now has its own communities, methodologies, frameworks, and tools. Today's guest, Dave Rigotti, has quickly become one of the godfathers of PLG as a thought leader and co-founder of Inflection.io. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Dave Rigotti is an entrepreneur and marketing leader dedicated to furthering the B2B marketing industry. Dave was VP of Marketing at Bizible (acquired by Marketo), Director of ABM at Adobe, and now is co-founder and marketing leader at Inflection.io.https://www.linkedin.com/in/daverigotti/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - What is PLG? [04:00] - Why PLG has gotten so popular recently[05:50] - Reasons Dave focused his new company on PLG[07:26] - Why sales-led software doesn’t scale for PLG [07:40] - Playbooks of top PLG companies[14:34] - Inflection’s data structure[19:12] - Opportunities and challenges of PLG ops[22:46] - Funnels, attribution, and PLG[25:31] - Scoring in PLG[26:47] - Top-down vs. bottom-up PLG motions[29:34] - Dave’s journey from startup to enterprise to startup[33:17] - Sustaining product agility as a startup[35:01] - How it feels to see Bizible not evolve after acquisition[36:06] - How to break the cycle of product stagnation as you scaleResource LinksInflection.io - Product-Led Growth Software - Official website for Inflection.io Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
A Glimpse Into the Future of Martech - Phil Gamache
Jan 22 2024
A Glimpse Into the Future of Martech - Phil Gamache
Martech continues to expand and shift at breakneck speed. Hot startups from five years ago have become legacy incumbents. Some platforms consolidate into monolithic suites while other categories break apart into specialized point solutions. AI looms over everything, with potential to disrupt virtually every established paradigm. Who better to guide us through this landscape than Phil Gamache, one of the humans behind the awesome Humans of Martech podcast? Join us for a deep dive into the future of Martech and a behind-the-scenes glimpse at how Phil and Jon produce their show using the latest AI tools. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Phil Gamache is on a mission to future-proof the humans behind the tech and help them have successful and happy careers in marketing. During the day, he runs all things Growth at Pelago and during the weekends you can find him behind the mic on humansofmartech.com. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gamacp/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:40] - Origin of the Humans of Martech Podcast[03:42] - Importance of soft skills in becoming a martech leader[04:33] - Growing an audience for the show[08:00] - Importance of having a specific approach for the show. Enjoying the process of learning through being a host.[11:00] - Use of AI for creating podcast imagery and transcription[17:32] - What do we consider AI-generated imagery to be? [20:30] - Point of view on martech and being platform agnostic[25:21] - Phil’s ideal stack[26:47] - Benefits of a composable CDP architecture[30:17] - Definition of composability in martech[34:27] - Challenges of troubleshooting a composable stack[38:19] - The relative recency of the cloud-first warehouse and the transition to warehouse native tech[40:22] - How much does the tech matter, in the big picture of business? [42:19] - Phil’s take on the role of AI a year from now[44:20] - Propensity modelling[49:03] - Finding balance in lifeResource LinksHumans of Martech – Future-proofing the humans behind the tech - The Humans of Martech website. Click on "episodes" to browse the huge back catalogue by topic. Midjourney - Image generator Phil uses to create the AI artwork for the showInsightface.ai - App Phil uses to incorporate photos into AI-generated photo. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
A Playbook for Winning as a Marketing Ops Leader - Jessica Kao
Jan 17 2024
A Playbook for Winning as a Marketing Ops Leader - Jessica Kao
If you're looking to transition from a technical MOPS expert to a leader - or if you're an existing MOPS leader who wants to up their game - Jessica Kao is the person to learn from.She built a career as an expert MOPS consultant before becoming an enterprise marketing ops leader. Listen to this conversation and you'll quickly see: she's ridiculously good at the business side of marketing operations. She knows how to plan, how to communicate, and how to lead. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jessica Kao is Senior Director, Marketing Operations and Martech at Cloudflare. She has 10+ years of experience inspiring a nation of marketers through authenticity. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesskao/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:40] - How Jessica defines the mandate of marketing ops. It is the accelerant to marketing. Everything flows through the pipes of marketing operations. [03:02] - How to determine if marketing ops is doing a good job. “Winning” means the CMO views you as a strategic partner and when you’re a bullet point in the board slide deck. But all projects should be aligned to the CMO’s initiatives and marketing KPIs. Marketing ops succeeds when the marketing team reaches its goals. [06:03] - Marketing ops shouldn’t just view themselves as the executor of another team’s strategy. Marketing ops can bring clarity, due to their position of visibility, the data we have, to spot trends, to provide feedback, etc. How do we make use of the data that we have to provide clarity to marketing leadership? [08:47] - Learning to be an internal advocate for the marketing ops team and navigating reluctance to be “self-promotional. ” The acceleration leap is the ability to translate what we do into something that provides business impact. Promoting the work we do is a by-product of bringing that clarity to the marketing team and focusing on the right things. Winning is not completing your tickets - it’s prioritization, doing the right things, providing clarity. [10:43] - The roadmapping process. Using an agile cadence, thinking of marketing technology like a product. Think about how you launch a project and create it. Quarterly planning and monthly sprints. Monthly sprints is the right fit. They have an “above the line / below the line” backlog. In a new company, shifting the balance from ad-hoc to roadmap. Being a consultant is helpful as it gives valuable skills in scoping. [13:54] - Learning to communicate incremental value instead of thinking of a project as needing to be 100% done and complete before delivering value. People get discouraged. Think of crawl/walk/run - crawling is still winning. This way people view MOPS as problem-solvers rather than blockers. Continuous delivery of incremental value. [15:46] - How to determine what should be prioritized. Jessica knows where they need to go in one, two, and three years, and that is her North Star. If you don’t have a roadmap, others will make one for you. Get buy-in from your boss and their peers. [17:23] - Translating features to stakeholder speak - what capabilities are you going to unlock. Quick-wins deliverables roadmap vs. plumbing/architecture/non-sexy roadmap. Jess has an external-facing roadmap...
How to Use AI - A Guide for Marketers
Jan 9 2024
How to Use AI - A Guide for Marketers
Everyone is talking about how transformative AI is, but the information is still very piecemeal. There are tons of app focused listicles or cool tricks for ChatGPT, but if you're like me, you don't have time to go looking for ways to put apps to work.So I set out to take a comprehensive look at the business of marketing, breaking it down into the fundamental jobs to be done and creating practical guidance for marketers on how they might incorporate AI into their daily work in each area. This episode covers four main applications that have me excited, but if you visit the link below, you can access an Airtable base with over 35 use cases and over 40 apps. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:30] - Why make this episode[03:17] - Unstructured text analysis[05:27] - Structured data analysis[09:47] - Visual media generation[11:37] - AI and workflow automation[15:09] - AI for creative writing[17:15] - Two visions of AI usageResource LinksA Very Gentle Introduction to Large Language Models without the Hype - A useful primer to AI and large language models.
A Deep Dive into HockeyStack's GTM Playbook - Emir Atli
Jan 1 2024
A Deep Dive into HockeyStack's GTM Playbook - Emir Atli
I follow the attribution software category pretty closely, and sometime in the last 6-12 months it felt like I started seeing HockeyStack everywhere in my LinkedIn feed.They have multiple team members and executives posting regularly, producing unique and engaging content, and they are building in public, sharing tons of juicy details about their GTM strategy.How did a relatively young startup come to appear so dominant so quickly? I invited HockeyStock's CRO to chat and unpack all the details. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Emir Atli is the co-founder and CRO of HockeyStack, the a B2B GTM Analytics platform. https://www.linkedin.com/in/emircatli/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:27] - Origins of HockeyStack.[02:42] - What they saw that could be disrupted in the attribution space: a platform that didn't depend on Salesforce data and that was faster to implement. People buy these tools for two reasons: proving contribution and optimizing. There is most room to innovate around optimization. [04:56] - HockeyStack's go-to-market strategy. Starting with a goal to dominate LinkedIn, with co-founders posting daily. All GTM team members are expected to post. They focus not just on brand awareness but on making marketers smarter. Each team member has their own personality which shapes the content strategy. Finding the balance between entertainment and education. [09:53] - The Flow, HockeyStack's content platform. [10:39] - Sales strategy and process. Importance of the interactive demo. Use of a virtual sales room. Taking a consultative approach to selling. Working with the buyer's pace. [15:41] - Implementation and onboarding process (typically takes two weeks).[17:10] - How to be differentiated in showing value from the product once people buy it. Emphasis on flexibility - no-code dashboard builder, not locking people into templates. [18:59] - Data cleansing and data structure. [20:10] - Using data to tell better stories. Demonstrating what's actually working. [24:51] - Definition of incrementality reporting. [26:26] - How HockeyStack positions itself against competitors. [27:55] - Flexibility of the data model and dashboarding platform. Bringing in Snowflake data. [29:18] - Incorporating self-reported attribution. How many "dark social" touchpoints actually can be tracked. [33:12] - How HockeyStack innovates rapidly on the product. Impact of being in Y-Combinator. [35:49] - Marketing Mix Modelling - what it is and how to use it. Resource LinksHockeyStack - Official Site Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
Legends of GTM - Jill Rowley and the Nearbound Movement
Dec 21 2023
Legends of GTM - Jill Rowley and the Nearbound Movement
Jill Rowley is a legend in SaaS, with early tenures at Salesforce and Eloqua. As one of Eloqua's first salespeople, she helped shape the category of marketing automation and was also an early pioneer of social selling. Today she is helping evangelize a new perspective on partner-led growth, which she calls "nearbound." Jill and I talk about what it was like selling cloud-based software in the early oughts, helping the first customers to use marketing automation, and what it means to go to market with partners. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest 23 years in SaaS. Early employee at Salesforce (first 100), Eloqua (#13), HubSpot Advisor (2014-2016), Marketo (2018).Loves startups, especially category creators - - in the trenches building Nearbound.https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillrowley/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:23] - Start of Jill's career at Salesforce. [03:08] - How Jill pitched SaaS in the early days of cloud software. Salesforce's guerilla marketing tactics. [04:47] - Moving to Eloqua as employee thirteen. Creating the category of marketing automation. Evangelizing for the importance of marketers on revenue. [10:05] - Early days of service partnerships at Eloqua. Co-selling with David Lewis. [11:54] - Types of service partner relationships. How there can be power-disparities and bad dynamics between smaller service partners and larger vendors. How many companies still view service partners as a source of leads rather than a way to build credibility and influence with prospects. There are bad fit partners. Need to have organized partner ecosystem data. [15:26] - Definition of nearbound. Living in market with your partners. Differences from inbound and outbound. Looking at a practical, hypothetical example: Clari and Hubspot. [20:41] - Addressing potential criticism of the partner-led approach: that it's too slow. Why you can't go to market with 1,500 partners. [24:01] - Why the value of partnerships is far more than leads. Top-down vs. bottom-up partnerships. Why both are important. [29:50] - Partner ops. Reference to Scott Brinker's article (see resource links). Resource Linksnearbound.com | The future of GTM is here - Official Nearbound website. Partner Ops: The forgotten ops that’s suddenly thriving in the ecosystem era - Scott Brinker's article on partner ops. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter
How To Explain Your Product to Hook Your Ideal Customer - Mitch Solway
Dec 12 2023
How To Explain Your Product to Hook Your Ideal Customer - Mitch Solway
Your GTM message has an incredibly difficult task: to speak to the people who will love your product and take them from a place of disinterest and zero context to a place of understanding and excitement. When done well, it’s pure magic. I think that every GTM and ops professional should be familiar with how to do this, and so I asked my old boss, Mitch Solway, to join me for a masterclass in messaging.Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mitch Solway is a 5x VP of Marketing who has led teams at Lavalife, Freshbooks, Vidyard, and Clearfit, among others. Today he works as a Fractional CMO for startups. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchsolway/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - How Mitch defines the hierarchy of messaging. He starts at the end, considering the outcome he’s trying to achieve. Then you can reverse engineer what you need to get to that point, starting with positioning, then copy, then messaging. [02:55] - The end result for Mitch is two stories: one broad, one narrow. The narrow story is targeted at your “Can’t Miss Customer.” This is your ideal customer. You need to understand everything about this person. Mitch calls this “Is this you?” marketing. You tell the prospect a story, and if you know them really well, your Can’t-Miss Customer will identify themselves in your message. Focusing on the person and their world vs. on your product. [04:55] - We don’t tell our customer’s story enough. We need to realize we are only 5% of the customer’s world - important to understand the other 95%. Interview your best customers, then translate those stories back to other prospects. [07:33] - The broad story. This is when you’re introducing something new to the market. You need to educate people to create a vision of an “inevitable future.” Getting the market to see the world the way you see it. Example of doing this with Vidyard using influencers to educate the market with a very low budget. [13:26] - Creating the “narrow story” for Vidyard. The litmus test for the narrow story is, can you get the person from no context to being excited in three questions. Mitch calls this the “context rollercoaster.” Examples of how this works in practices. If you can do this, you’ve found the “nerve center” that you need to touch on. [18:17] - Your product isn’t that important to the customer, most likely. Even if they use it, it’s just a fraction of their world. You need to show them that you understand their pain to spark interest. Example of why this is important in outbound. Example of how Mitch tweaked the messaging at Clearfit to better align with customer truths and how that message was conveyed in radio ads. [21:52] - Example of competing with ZipRecruiter on the radio. They had raised funds and were outspending 20:1. Mitch tweaked the messaging to turn the competitor’s strength into a weakness. [23:57] - Process for creating a messaging framework from scratch. Start with internal interviews with key stakeholders. 90% of that process is about internal alignment. For positioning, he uses April Dunford’s framework and conducts a workshop with key stakeholders. Prior to that workshop he interviews existing customers that the company wants to get more of....
Going Deep Into the Refine Labs Methodology - Sidney Waterfall
Dec 5 2023
Going Deep Into the Refine Labs Methodology - Sidney Waterfall
Refine Labs has changed the course of B2B marketing over the past few years. Challenging conventions on attribution and funnel tracking and championing new ways of generating demand, this agency has broken pretty much every mold and driven the conversation and debate. Today we're joined by SVP of Marketing Sidney Waterfall, who produces much of the Refine Labs IP and brings together both deep demand gen and RevOps expertise. In this in-depth discussion we unpack the nitty-gritty of the Refine Labs methodology. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Sidney Waterfall is SVP of Marketing at Refine Labs, with responsibility for GTM strategy, demand generation, product marketing, product strategy, and ultimately driving revenue for Refine Labs services and products.https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidneywaterfall/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:02] - Sidney's background and how she joined Refine Labs.[02:25] - Issues in B2B marketing today. Many people still running a lead gen approach. Lack of focus on data structure and operations, although macroeconomic conditions forcing people to become more data driven. [05:19] - Defining terms - lead gen, demand gen, demand capture, demand conversion. [07:47] - More companies implementing this approach in recent years. But some still struggle with making the transition. How Refine Labs helps companies make that strategic shift. First step is accepting that buyer behavior has changed. Requires deep alignment at the leadership level. Changing measurement and KPIs, from lead generation to higher intent pipeline. This provokes terror in some. Overcoming objections. Indicators to look at. [15:22] - What it means to run a demand creation campaign and how to do it. You don't need a huge evangelist in your company. Only 20-25% of Refine Labs clients have that. It starts with the content that's on your high-value product and solutions pages. This gives the campaign strategy or angle. You take that and package it for both paid and organic. This content communicates problem awareness. You can also work with content teams, take assets like blog posts and repackage them for social. Distribute it in a buyer-centric way - un-gated, designed for the platform, unique. You need some offer in the middle, like a podcast or live event series, that people can engage with. [20:35] - Whether this approach can work for everyone. It requires a basic repeatable sales process and the ability to talk to prospects. If you don't know how to convert a buyer when they are in a sales cycle, you won't know how to create demand. [22:13] - The role of ops in a demand creation GTM strategy. Ops is pivotal. There's a strategic side and a tactical side. If ops is a strategic function in your org, you will have a powerhouse org. They need to offer not just data but insights - that's the step up there. Justin notes that ops leaders need to be revenue leaders in their own right, not just in service of others. [28:13] - How to configure systems for attribution. First step is standardized UTM values. Important to track session-based UTMs - so first touch but also tracking UTMs for each session that results in a conversion. A conversion is anytime your sales team is...
GTM Planning and Forecasting, Without the Spreadsheets - Toni Hohlbein
Nov 27 2023
GTM Planning and Forecasting, Without the Spreadsheets - Toni Hohlbein
In a world where we have so much tech, it's amazing that revenue planning and forecasting remain relatively primitive in most companies. You could have literally a million dollar tech stack and yet still be creating your business plan with a spreadsheet and forecasting results with a best guess from sales. Today we look at how to go beyond the spreadsheet paradigm with the CEO of Growblocks, a revenue planning and analytics platform. We'll explore whether it's possible to have a truly predictable forecast and how operators can spot and fix issues before they become million dollar problems. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Toni is the CEO of Growblocks. He spent years as a B2B SaaS CRO and revenue operator, achieving multiple exits. Through this experience, he created a revenue operating operating model that helped his company hit targets 12 quarters in a row. This model was later on used as the basis for Growblocks.https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonihohlbein/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:33] - Toni's background. Founding Growblocks. Sharing a focus on data-driven, system-thinking approach to revenue with his co-founders. [04:27] - Most forecasting tools focus on only on the opportunity forecast, ignoring the rest of the funnel. Why there aren't more companies building software for full-funnel planning. Forecasts are split into silos. Once you forecast the full funnel, you can identify how a gap in one stage translates to revenue impact further down. [07:40] - How Toni explains this vision to the market and what benefits people are connecting with. When people finally see their actual revenue engine end-to-end for the first time, it's a huge impact. [10:09] - Flaws with the planning process today. How the planning process should take place: top-down and bottom up meeting in the middle. [14:09] - The impact of the tech bubble on the planning process and how it has distorted expectations and behaviour. You can only be efficient once you are predictable. [18:00] - The factors that lead to predictability. The first comes from understanding your sales engine as a whole through the entire funnel. Not relying on sales people that can pull rabbits from hats. The second factor is proactively spotting issues and jumping on them quickly. [21:39] - Issues with marketing and sales alignment. Why marketing will hit their number but sales misses theirs. Toni doesn't have an issue with MQLs, so long as the company splits handraisers from non-handraisers. Then marketing can't just hit their number with low-intent MQLs. [25:24] - Outbound is still alive and kicking. Think of it as the delivery mechanism for a message. Importance of choosing channels that work for your audience. Someone may not be on LinkedIn but they are listening to the radio all day. [28:32] - Starting to dive into the Growblocks platform. Growblocks works with any kind of funnel design and is also configurable across different dimensions. Solving for garbage-in-garbage-out problems. If data points are missing, it's best to go up a level and exclude that step, then circle back to it when better data is available....