Tech Mirror

Tech Policy Design Centre

“How do we ensure technology makes our lives better?” Tech Mirror: Reflecting on technology and society with Johanna Weaver explores how technology impacts our lives: the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. Technology is made by humans. When we refocus on this foundational truth, it opens the possibility that technology can be made differently. Questions about how we might shape technology differently are not just “technical” questions. The answers to these questions go to the very core of the fabric our societies. Just as there is a variety of diverse voices involved in the development of health policy, or national security policy, we need more people to actively engage in tech policy discussions. Through interviews with the movers and shapers, and analysis by experts and opinionated guests, this podcast will empower you to participate in policy discussions to shape the technologies that will shape our future. read less
TechnologyTechnology

Episodes

War Has Rules (yes, even in cyberspace)
Dec 11 2023
War Has Rules (yes, even in cyberspace)
This is a special episode of Tech Mirror on the imperative to protect civilians from digital threats during war. Johanna is in conversation with Dr. Cordula Droege, Chief Legal Officer and Head of the legal division of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), and Dr. Tilman Rodenhäuser, Thematic Legal Adviser at the ICRC.   The trio discuss the work of a high-level ICRC Advisory Board, which was convened by the ICRC to develop concrete recommendations on the legal and policy challenges to protect civilians from digital threats during armed conflict. The trio also discuss the influential blog post, co-authored by Rodenhäuser, on the rules for ‘civilian hackers’ during war - and the fascinating responses the post generated from hacktivist groups and states.     Relevant Links: Final report from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). 'Global Advisory Board on digital threats during conflict 2023' https://www.icrc.org/en/document/global-advisory-board-digital-threats    The Geneva Conventions and their commentaries via the ICRC https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law/treaties-customary-law/geneva-conventions    8 rules for “civilian hackers” during war, and 4 obligations for states to restrain them, by Tilman Rodenhäuser and Mauro Vignati, via the Humanitarian Law & Policy, hosted by the ICRC https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2023/10/04/8-rules-civilian-hackers-war-4-obligations-states-restrain-them/   ‘Governments and hackers agree: the laws of war must apply in cyberspace’, by Johanna Weaver, via The Conversation https://theconversation.com/governments-and-hackers-agree-the-laws-of-war-must-apply-in-cyberspace-216202    ‘Frankissstein’, by Jeanette Winterson (2019) https://www.penguin.com.au/books/frankissstein-9781784709952   ‘Machines Like Me’, by Ian McEwan (2019) https://www.penguin.com.au/books/machines-like-me-9781473568020    ‘Offensive Cyber Operations: Understanding Intangible Warfare’, by Daniel Moore (2022) https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/offensive-cyber-operations/   Cyber Law Toolkit https://cyberlaw.ccdcoe.org/wiki/Main_Page
Privacy: Move Fast and Regulate It
Nov 27 2023
Privacy: Move Fast and Regulate It
Curious about the future of privacy in Australia? Join us as we delve into the world of privacy regulation in Australia. Our expert panel shares their thoughts on the Government’s response to the Privacy Act Review Report.  It’s a follow-up to episode #22 ‘Privacy is Not Dead’. Returning guest Anna Johnston, founder and Principal of Salinger Privacy, is joined by Ryan Black, Head of Policy for the Tech Council of Australia, and Kate Bower, a fellow at the UTS Human Technology Institute, currently on sabbatical from CHOICE as Consumer Data Advocate.     The panel discuss:   - highlights and gaps in the Government’s response  - the definition of ‘personal information’  - the future of the small business and political exemptions   - legitimate business interests, fair and reasonable use tests, and best interest duties  - interoperability with international privacy frameworks  - privacy and artificial intelligence   - the urgency of reform   - what happens next    Relevant Links:    Salinger Privacy blog, including Anna Johnston’s 2015 article about the need to reform the definition of personal information https://www.salingerprivacy.com.au/2015/04/19/bradley-coopers-taxi-ride-a-lesson-in-privacy-risk/    Arvind Narayanan’s “No Silver Bullet “ paper about de-identification http://randomwalker.info/publications/no-silver-bullet-de-identification.pdf    Arvind Narayanan’s AI Snake Oil Substack https://www.aisnakeoil.com    This Week in Digital Trust podcast, latest episode featuring an interview with Johanna https://elevenm.com.au/podcast/episode/86-johanna-weaver-the-future-of-tech-policy/    The Future of Privacy Forum https://fpf.org/    UTS Human Technology Institute’s State of AI Governance report  https://www.uts.edu.au/human-technology-institute/news/report-launch-state-ai-governance-australia    DP-REG joint submission to the Department of Industry, Science and Resources (DISR) consultation on the ‘Safe and responsible AI in Australia’ Discussion Paper https://www.accc.gov.au/about-us/media/media-updates/digital-platform-regulators-make-joint-submission-on-ai   US Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence | The White House https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/    UK’s consultation on a Pro-Innovation Approach to AI - A pro-innovation approach to AI regulation - amended (web-ready PDF) (publishing.service.gov.uk)    The Bletchley Declaration by Countries Attending the AI Safety Summit (November 2023) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-safety-summit-2023-the-bletchley-declaration/the-bletchley-declaration-by-countries-attending-the-ai-safety-summit-1-2-november-2023    China Global AI Governance Initiative: http://gd.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/zxhd_1/202310/t20231024_11167412.htm
Beyond the Pause: Australia’s AI Opportunity – Part 2
Oct 18 2023
Beyond the Pause: Australia’s AI Opportunity – Part 2
Ever wish you could sit down with a real-deal AI technologist and ask them what’s on earth is going on? In this double-episode of Tech Mirror, Johanna chats with Bill Simpson Young and Tiberio Cataneo, CEO and Chief Scientist at Gradient Institute. This independent, non-profit research institute works to build safety, ethics, accountability and transparency into AI systems.   In Part One of this wide-ranging conversation, the trio: -          define key terms like Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Large Language Models, Frontier vs Foundation AI, Narrow vs General AI -          chat about Bill’s biggest bugbear -          talk about why Bill and Tiberio both signed the Pause Letter and -          discuss if it is even possible to regulate Artificial intelligence (spoiler alert: it is) -          and consider how liability could be used to incentivise improved AI safety.   In Part Two, they discuss: -          the benefits and perils of open-source AI models -          the possibility of securing an international agreement on AI safety, US and China dynamics and the opportunity for Australian leadership  -          the practical work that Gradient is doing to facilitate the technical implementation of ethical AI frameworks to address AI harms today.   Links -          Gradient Institute: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/ -          Australian Government Paper and call for submission on Responsible Artificial Intelligence: https://consult.industry.gov.au/supporting-responsible-ai -          Gradient’s Submission on Responsible AI: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/posts/disr-safe-responsible-ai-submission/ -          The Pause Letter: https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experiments/ -          UK AI Safety Summit: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-safety-summit-introduction -          The Future of Life Institute’s recommendations for the UK AI Safety Summit: https://futureoflife.org/project/uk-ai-safety-summit/ -          Gradient and National AI Centre: Implementing Australia’s AI Ethics Principles: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/posts/csiro-gradient-new-report/ -          The Coming Wave: Technology, Power and the Twenty-first Century’s greatest dilemma: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/90590134
Beyond the Pause: Australia’s AI Opportunity – Part 1
Oct 18 2023
Beyond the Pause: Australia’s AI Opportunity – Part 1
Ever wish you could sit down with a real-deal AI technologist and ask them what’s on earth is going on? In this double-episode of Tech Mirror, Johanna chats with Bill Simpson Young and Tiberio Cataneo, CEO and Chief Scientist at Gradient Institute. This independent, non-profit research institute works to build safety, ethics, accountability and transparency into AI systems.   In Part One of this wide-ranging conversation, the trio: -          define key terms like Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Large Language Models, Frontier vs Foundation AI, Narrow vs General AI -          chat about Bill’s biggest bugbear -          talk about why Bill and Tiberio both signed the Pause Letter and -          discuss if it is even possible to regulate Artificial intelligence (spoiler alert: it is) -          and consider how liability could be used to incentivise improved AI safety.   In Part Two, they discuss: -          the benefits and perils of open-source AI models -          the possibility of securing an international agreement on AI safety, US and China dynamics and the opportunity for Australian leadership  -          the practical work that Gradient is doing to facilitate the technical implementation of ethical AI frameworks to address AI harms today.   Links -          Gradient Institute: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/ -          Australian Government Paper and call for submission on Responsible Artificial Intelligence: https://consult.industry.gov.au/supporting-responsible-ai -          Gradient’s Submission on Responsible AI: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/posts/disr-safe-responsible-ai-submission/ -          The Pause Letter: https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experiments/ -          UK AI Safety Summit: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-safety-summit-introduction -          The Future of Life Institute’s recommendations for the UK AI Safety Summit: https://futureoflife.org/project/uk-ai-safety-summit/ -          Gradient and National AI Centre: Implementing Australia’s AI Ethics Principles: https://www.gradientinstitute.org/posts/csiro-gradient-new-report/ -          The Coming Wave: Technology, Power and the Twenty-first Century’s greatest dilemma: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/90590134
The Social and Moral Imperative to Act
Aug 21 2023
The Social and Moral Imperative to Act
Johanna speaks with Alice Dawkins, Executive Director of Reset.Tech Australia, an independent, non-partisan policy initiative wrestling with questions about online harms & safety, digital information markets, democracy and tech accountability.  In a wide-ranging conversation, the pair discuss topics including: Alice’s experience in Myanmar working with public interest lawyers involved in that country’s pro-democracy movementReset’s research on young people and privacy online in Australia Social media platform monitoring during the Voice referendum campaignTruth in political advertising The federal government’s plans to introduce new laws to provide the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) with powers to combat online misinformation and disinformationThe limitation of co-regulatory approaches to tech policymaking Tech exceptionalism and accountability The importance of securing access to platform data for researchers and civil society experts     Relevant Links: Reset.Tech Australia https://au.reset.tech/ Reset’s report on Young People and Online Privacy https://au.reset.tech/news/report-realising-young-people-s-rights-in-the-digital-environment/   Exposure draft of the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2023 https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/department/media/publications/communications-legislation-amendment-combatting-misinformation-and-disinformation-bill-2023  John Naughton’s columns (professor of the public understanding of technology at the Open University and author of From Gutenberg to Zuckerberg: What You Really Need to Know About the Internet) https://www.theguardian.com/profile/johnnaughton    Logic(s) magazine https://logicmag.io/    Follow: Alice Dawkins Twitter https://twitter.com/adawko  Alice Dawkins Linkedin https://au.linkedin.com/in/alicedawkins
Everything is Content Moderation
Jul 31 2023
Everything is Content Moderation
Johanna speaks with Evelyn Douek, assistant Professor at Stanford Law School (and former corporate lawyer in Australia), about the public and private regulation of speech online. The pair discusses: the private and public regulation of speech online why 'everything is content moderation' and what it might mean to take a systems thinking approach the importance of platform transparency the history, significance, and politics of Section 230 institutional competence and the role of courts the state of trust and safety the value of a functioning parliament and the differences between Australia and the U.S. in making tech policy At 21:11, Johanna refers to the Foreign Interference Committee. For clarification, this reference was made in relation to the Big Tech Inquiry of the Senate Economics References Committee, chaired by Senator Bragg (colloquially referred to as the social media foreign interference committee). This is not to be confused with the Select Committee on Foreign Interference through Social Media, chaired by Senator Paterson.   Relevant Links: Evelyn Douek: https://www.evelyndouek.com/ Moderated Content podcast: https://law.stanford.edu/directory/evelyn-douek/moderated-content/ Content Moderation as Systems Thinking, by Evelyn Douek, Harvard Law Review: https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-136/content-moderation-as-systems-thinking/ Casey Newton’s Platformer newsletter: https://www.platformer.news/ The Washington Post’s technology newsletter: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-202-newsletters/the-technology-202/ Rest of World: https://restofworld.org/   Follow: Evelyn Douek on Twitter: @evelyndouek  Stanford Law School on Twitter: @StanfordLaw Stanford Law School on LinkedIn: Stanford Law School (SLS)
Keeping Pace: The Case for Digital Regulation
Jun 12 2023
Keeping Pace: The Case for Digital Regulation
In this episode of Tech Mirror, Johanna is in conversation with Gina Cass-Gottlieb, Chair of the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission), one of Australia’s lead regulators in the area of technology and digital platforms.   In a wide-ranging conversation the pair discuss: the ACCC’s Digital Platform Services inquiry 2020 – 2025, how regulators can develop the tech knowledge and capacity required for making good policy, the relationship between innovation and market power, unfair trading practices, in a digital context, artificial intelligence, ex-ante approaches to regulation and; the importance of thinking about the tech ecosystem as a whole.    Relevant Links: The ACCC Digital platform services inquiry 2020 – 2025: https://www.accc.gov.au/inquiries-and-consultations/digital-platform-services-inquiry-2020-25  Gina Cass-Gottlieb's National Press Club speech (12 April 2023) on the role of the ACCC and competition in a transitioning economy: https://www.accc.gov.au/about-us/media/speeches/the-role-of-the-accc-and-competition-in-a-transitioning-economy-address-to-the-national-press-club-2023 Pivot podcast with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway: https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/show/pivot  Decoder podcast with Nilay Patel: https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel  The Platform Law blog: https://theplatformlaw.blog/  The Information: https://www.theinformation.com/  U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary hearing on the Oversight of A.I.: Rules for Artificial Intelligence (16 May 2023): https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/committee-activity/hearings/oversight-of-ai-rules-for-artificial-intelligence  Tech Policy Design Centre’s Tech Policy Atlas: https://techpolicydesign.au/tech-policy-atlas   Follow: ACCC Twitter: @acccgovau ACCC LinkedIn: @ACCC Gina Cass-Gottlieb: @Gina Cass-Gottlieb
Digital Identify: Waking Sleeping Gorillas
Mar 27 2023
Digital Identify: Waking Sleeping Gorillas
In this episode of Tech Mirror, Johanna speaks to Amit Singh, a member of the expert panel appointed by the Australian Federal Government to oversee an independent audit of the government digital services platform, myGov. The conversation covers the history, present and future of the Australian digital identity ecosystem. Johanna and Amit explore the challenges of designing smart digital identity policy and discuss the roles for government (described by Singh as ‘the sleeping gorilla waking up to the digital party’) in this complex ecosystem.   Relevant links: myGov user audit report (https://my.gov.au/en/audit) Technology and History: "Kranzberg's Laws" https://www.jstor.org/stable/3105385?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents The Power Law (https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-power-law-9780241356531), by Sebastian Mallaby The Digital Republic: on Freedom and Democracy in the 21st Century (https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/digital-republic-9781526625489/), by Jamie Susskind (former Tech Mirror guest https://techpolicydesign.au/podcast/15-the-digital-republic) Semafor tech coverage (https://www.semafor.com/vertical/tech) Advancing Prosperity: 5-year Productivity Inquiry report, by the Productivity Commission https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/productivity/report Treasurer Jim Chalmers speech to CEDA (the Committee for Economic Development of Australia) – ‘Turning headwinds into tailwinds – Australia’s productivity challenge’ https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers 2022/speeches/address-ceda-brisbane
Privacy is Not Dead
Feb 26 2023
Privacy is Not Dead
In this episode, Johanna brings together a group of Australian privacy experts to discuss the Federal Government’s Privacy Act Review and to share their perspectives on the reforms that have been proposed and what might happen next. Hot topics included the meaning and importance of privacy in the digital age, the scope of the Privacy Act, meaningful consent, data minimalization, deidentification, international harmonisation.     Guests this episode were Anna Johnston, founder and Principal of Salinger Privacy, a privacy consulting and advisory service, David Vaile, Chair of the Australian Privacy Foundation and Sunita Bose, Managing Director of DIGI, a not-for-profit industry association advocating for the digital industry.  Relevant Links:  UNICEF: Digital Age Assurance tools and Childrens Rights Online across the Globe – a Discussion Paper: https://c-fam.org/wp-content/uploads/Digital-Age-Assurance-Tools-and-Childrens-Rights-Online-across-the-Globe.pdf  Salinger Privacy Reforms hub of resources: https://www.salingerprivacy.com.au/privacy-reforms/  Podcast: This week in digital trust – #51 The Wait is Over: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/51-the-wait-is-over/id1616386683?i=1000601017587  Australian Privacy Foundation: https://privacy.org.au/  Bruce Schneier’s Newsletter Crypto-Gram: https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/  Cultivating Coordination Research Paper: https://techpolicydesign.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/TPDC_Cultivating_Coordination_2_20230221.pdf  Follow:  Sunita Bose on Twitter @SunitaBose  Digital Industry Group on Twitter: @DIGIAUS  Salinger Privacy (Anna Johnson) on Twitter @SalingerPrivacy  Australian Privacy Foundation on Twitter @apf_oz  Tech Policy Design Centre on Twitter: @TPDesignCentre
Security by Design or Disaster?
Nov 24 2022
Security by Design or Disaster?
Professor Lee Bygrave, Director of the Norwegian Research Centre for Computers and Law in the University of Oslo, joins Johanna in the studio to discuss security by design. The pair discuss the importance and challenges of translating “by design” mantras from legal concepts to engineering concepts and vice versa. In the context of the Optus and Medibank hacks, they canvas the proposal for new penalties for privacy breaches in Australia, privacy reform, the EU’s proposed Cyber Resilience Act and much more. Tech Mirror is recorded on Ngunnawal land. We acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land and pay our respect to elders past, present, and emerging. Professor Johanna Weaver is Director of the Tech Policy Design Centre at the Australian National University. This episode was produced by Jack Fox, with special thanks to Ben Gowdie for research and Tanvi Nair for post-production support.   Relevant links: Professor Bygraves’ Paper: Security by Design: Aspirations and Realities in a Regulatory Context: https://www.idunn.no/doi/10.18261/olr.8.3.2#sec-5 Professor Bygraves’ Paper: Data Protection by Design and Default: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3944535  Australian Securities and Investments Commission v RI Advice Group Pty Ltd: https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2022/2022fca0496  Proposed EU Cyber Resilience Act: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/cyber-resilience-act  GDPR Text, Article 25: https://gdpr-text.com/read/article-25/ ‘Good privacy reform rests on well-resourced tech regulators’ by Sarah O’Connor: https://www.innovationaus.com/good-privacy-reform-rest-on-well-resourced-tech-regulators/ ‘Privacy is hard and Seven Other Myths’ by Jaap-Henk Hoepman: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262045827/privacy-is-hard-and-seven-other-myths/ ‘Ethical IT innovation, a value based system design approach’ by Sara Spiekerman: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.1201/b19060/ethical-innovation-sarah-spiekermann   Send us your questions: techpolicydesign@anu.edu.au  Follow us on Twitter: @TPDesignCentre