JUSTUS with Jack & Gonzo

Jack D’Aurora and John Gonzales

Social justice means applying the law equally to all people. But in practice, that doesn’t always happen. We’re business and trial lawyers with over 60 years experience of practice. Together, we practice law, we seek social justice, and we reveal the conflict between the two. And in this podcast, we bring together guests from a variety of backgrounds to discuss the current issues surrounding social justice and the inequity between these issues and their relation to the legal system. Join with us, so that it’s not Just Us. read less

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93. What's up with the U.S. Supreme Court?

93. What's up with the U.S. Supreme Court?

Guessing the outcomes of cases brought before the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) can be challenging, and, sometimes, the court's decisions leave you scratching your head. Jack and Gonzo discuss our current court’s propensity to rule in favor of popular conservative causes. If the casinos in Vegas took bets on how SCOTUS were to decide a case, the odds makers probably wouldn't give long odds, because you pretty much know how the justices will rule by their political affiliation. Oh, sure, the justices are supposed to look at each case objectively, but we’re all subject to subliminal inclinations and beliefs that guide us. Even the justices.Jack and Gonzo take a look at two cases to explain. The first concerns Marcellus Williams, a black man of humble means, who was convicted of murder. His attorney asked SCOTUS to stay Williams’ execution (legal speak, for temporarily stopping the execution) because of multiple problems with the case. It wasn't a matter of asking the court to overturn Williams’ conviction, just a pause. SCOTUS was asked to intervene so as to avoid the very real possibility that the state of Missouri might execute an innocent man. Even the prosecuting attorney for the county where Williams was convicted was advocating for a stay, and the family of the person who was murdered stated that Williams should not be executed.But a majority of justices (all appointed by Republican presidents) couldn't be bothered and didn’t grant the stay. And Williams was executed.The second case concerns how SCOTUS handled the Trump immunity case. With nothing in the constitution about presidential immunity—literally, not a single word or even an inference about immunity—the court held that presidents have immunity for just about everything they do. Respected constitutional lawyers were stunned. The court couldn’t be bothered to stay the execution of a black man who grew up in an impoverished and dysfunctional household, but the court went out of its way to protect a man of privilege. The two cases really make you question where the court is.

Episodes

93. What's up with the U.S. Supreme Court?

93. What's up with the U.S. Supreme Court?

Guessing the outcomes of cases brought before the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) can be challenging, and, sometimes, the court's decisions leave you scratching your head. Jack and Gonzo discuss our current court’s propensity to rule in favor of popular conservative causes. If the casinos in Vegas took bets on how SCOTUS were to decide a case, the odds makers probably wouldn't give long odds, because you pretty much know how the justices will rule by their political affiliation. Oh, sure, the justices are supposed to look at each case objectively, but we’re all subject to subliminal inclinations and beliefs that guide us. Even the justices.Jack and Gonzo take a look at two cases to explain. The first concerns Marcellus Williams, a black man of humble means, who was convicted of murder. His attorney asked SCOTUS to stay Williams’ execution (legal speak, for temporarily stopping the execution) because of multiple problems with the case. It wasn't a matter of asking the court to overturn Williams’ conviction, just a pause. SCOTUS was asked to intervene so as to avoid the very real possibility that the state of Missouri might execute an innocent man. Even the prosecuting attorney for the county where Williams was convicted was advocating for a stay, and the family of the person who was murdered stated that Williams should not be executed.But a majority of justices (all appointed by Republican presidents) couldn't be bothered and didn’t grant the stay. And Williams was executed.The second case concerns how SCOTUS handled the Trump immunity case. With nothing in the constitution about presidential immunity—literally, not a single word or even an inference about immunity—the court held that presidents have immunity for just about everything they do. Respected constitutional lawyers were stunned. The court couldn’t be bothered to stay the execution of a black man who grew up in an impoverished and dysfunctional household, but the court went out of its way to protect a man of privilege. The two cases really make you question where the court is.

92. The First Amendment and FIRE

92. The First Amendment and FIRE

Does the First Amendment give us the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater? No, and this is one of the very few restrictions on free speech in America. Jack and Gonzo discuss the importance of free speech with Nico Perrino, Executive Vice President of FIRE. Founded in 1999 as the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, FIRE has worked to advance the cause of free speech and the values of the First Amendment at our nation’s colleges and universities. In 2022, FIRE changed its name to the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression to reflect its broader effort to protect and promote these values off campus as well. FIRE educates Americans about the importance of free speech and promotes a culture of respect for this right and provides the means to preserve it. FIRE’s mission is to defend and sustain the individual rights of all Americans to free speech and free thought—the most essential qualities of liberty. FIRE recognizes that colleges and universities play a vital role in preserving free thought within a free society. To this end, FIRE places a special emphasis on defending the individual rights of students and faculty members on our campuses, including freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, legal equality, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience. In 2023, FIRE’s Policy Reform team won 43 victories at 22 schools affecting more than 215,000 students.Our guest, Nico Perrino, was Co-Director and Senior Producer of “Mighty Ira” (2020), a feature-length film about the life and career of former ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser. He also worked as a consultant on “Can We Take a Joke?” (2015) and "The Coddling of the American Mind" (2024). Listen to our conversation with Nico and for more information, visit FIRE | Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (thefire.org).

91. Your client has autism and is charged with murder. What to do?

91. Your client has autism and is charged with murder. What to do?

Lawyers know how difficult it can be to represent a client with developmental disabilities and how ill equipped our justice system is to protect them. Our guest, McCracken Poston, Jr., is a practicing criminal defense attorney and former member of the Georgia House of Representatives. He just published his new book “Zenith Man: death, love and redemption in a Georgia courtroom,” the true story behind a controversial and unusual murder case.McCracken’s client, Alvin Ridley, who suffers from autism, was charged with murdering his wife in the late 1990s, only to be found innocent thanks to overlooked, peculiar evidence and the persistent efforts of his lawyer. Decades later, McCracken is retelling the story as a warning about prejudice, a rush to judgment, and how Americans who are different can be swept up unfairly in our justice system.

90. Zip codes—the most important social determinant of health

90. Zip codes—the most important social determinant of health

Ever think about the social determinants of health? At the top of the list: zip codes. Neighborhoods can differ dramatically in terms of safety, education, housing, green space, grocery stores, etc. When you lack these things—a world where options are limited—stress sets in, and the sole focus is just getting through each day; there’s no planning for the future. It shouldn’t be a surprise that good things happen when inner-city single moms and their children are given assistance in relocating to affluent suburbs. Listen to the conversation we have with Amy Klaben, president of Families Flourish, and Dr. Howard Levitin.

89. Losing Faith in the U.S. Supreme Court

89. Losing Faith in the U.S. Supreme Court

The U.S. Supreme Court has been in the news lately and not because of its popularity. The court’s recent decisions reflect more ideology than neutral analysis and a disregard for the ramifications of those decisions. Certain decisions are not supported by the text of the Constitution, even though some of the justices regard themselves as “textualists.” Some justices display an arrogance that is disquieting. How did we get here? Let’s remember, the justices were confirmed by a senate that is largely dysfunctional because of its own partisanship. Listen to what Jack and Gonzo have to say.

88. Patriotic Millionaires push for political equality, higher wages for working Americans, and a more eqitable tax system

88. Patriotic Millionaires push for political equality, higher wages for working Americans, and a more eqitable tax system

Patriotic Millionaires is a group of high-net-worth Americans who are committed to making all Americans, including themselves, better off by building a more prosperous, stable, and inclusive nation. The group focuses on promoting public policy solutions that encourage political equality, guarantee a sustaining wage for working Americans, and ensure that millionaires, billionaires, and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. Listen to our conversation with Morris Pearl, former managing director of the investment firm BlackRock, who serves as the chair of Patriotic Millionaires.

Dr. Arthur James on Black infants and women and prejudice in the medical system

Dr. Arthur James on Black infants and women and prejudice in the medical system

Dr. James, an OB/GYN and pediatrician, has spent his professional life trying to achieve equality in birth outcomes. Everyone should receive equal medical care, but that’snot the case in America. According to the Centers for Disease Control’s latest report on infant mortallity, babies born to Black women have teh hightest mortality rate. In addition, Black mothers report they aren’t treated as well as white women by medical professionals.Dr. James explains that achieving equity will require at least three things: (1) respecting all individuals and populations the same, (2) recognizing and rectifying past historical injustices, and (3) taking a targeted or proportionate universal approach; providing the most assistance to the groups experiencing the worst outcomes. A race-neutral approach will not result in achieving equity. This means we must improve the maternal and infant mortality rates for Blacks and other minorities at a faster pace while working to improve those rates for other groups, without slowing down our efforts to achieve the best birth outcomes for everyone. Listen to our conversation with Dr. James.

86. How the absence of humility hurts us all

86. How the absence of humility hurts us all

Everyone regards humility as a virtue, but how many of us appreciate its importance or, more importantly, how the absence of humility impedes societal discourse and hurts personal relationships. When we allow overconfidence bias and the Dunning-Kruger effect to control us, we are far too quick to offer opinions, no matter how little we might know, and refuse to listen. It’s as if we’re spring-loaded to spouting an opinion and defending it, not matter how little we might know. The result: we spend much time arguing about things that may not be true and trying to convince others how wrong they are. Instead of seeking to learn from the other and figuring out a solution, we focus on suppressing the other person’s point of view. And with this comes resentment, distance, a breakdown in personal and professional relationships and ineffective government.Richard Rohr said it best: “Those who know, know they don’t know.” Listen to what Jack and Gonzo have to say.

85. A place for teens in crisis.

85. A place for teens in crisis.

Where do teens in Central Ohio turn when they are scared and feel alone? A teen might have been booted from home after disclosing he’s gay. Sometimes parents are evicted and want a safe place for their daughter to stay. Anger, depression, mood disorders and myriad other problems drive teens to a dark place where they feel alone. Huckleberry House provides safety for teens in crisis. No matter the issue, teens receive shelter, counseling, compassion and hope. Listen to our conversation with Sonya Thesing, executive director of Huckleberry House.

84. Providing public health care in one of Ohio's poorest counties

84. Providing public health care in one of Ohio's poorest counties

Imagine life in Vinton County, Ohio—13,000 people spread across 450 square miles, with little in the way of resources. No Kroger, Giant Eagle or other big box stores, only Family Dollar and Dollar General stores. No emergency medical center. Just one health center with a single dentist who’s booked six to nine months out, and one or two primary care physicians. No behavioral care physician, no obstetrician, no optometrist. Why not solve the problem with telemedicine? Because much of the county doesn’t have sufficient internet, and many people can’t afford a laptop. The residents earn just enough to not qualify for Medicaid but not enough to be self-sufficient. Somehow, these people—endowed with resilience and grit—get by and largely because of a county health department that advocates for them. Margaret Demko, the county’s Family & Children First Coordinator and Help Me Grow program manager talks with us about how she identifies needs and then finds ways to provide the means to address those needs. It’s not easy work. Listen to what it takes to provide public health care in a county that has little.

83. The invisible shield of public health

83. The invisible shield of public health

There’s a little-known truth: public health saved your life today and you probably don't even know it. Public health makes our lives safer and helps us live longer, but its many successes largely go unrecognized. No small wonder it’s called “the invisibleshield” in a PBS documentary that aired last month. Former Director of the Ohio Department of Health, Amy Acton, M.D., discusses the important role Public Health plays in our lives. But underfunding and lack of public awareness are constant challenges. With Dr. Acton’s foresight, Ohio got through the Covid-19 pandemic, while politicians wanted to deny what science called for, which heightened the dangers brought by the disease. The question is, will we be ready for the next challenge?

82. Bill LaFayette on the minimum wage debate

82. Bill LaFayette on the minimum wage debate

Should the minimum wage pay enough so that workers can be self-sufficient? If not, why not? Large employers, like Walmart and Kroger, pay wages that exceed Ohio’s minimum wage but yet barely keep a person above the federal poverty level. Isn’t there a conflict between capitalism and society’s obligation to protect the most vulnerable workers? Listen to our conversation with Bill LaFayette, owner of local consulting firm, Regionomics.

81. Evangelicals use Christianity for political purposes

81. Evangelicals use Christianity for political purposes

The terms “evangelical” and “Christian” have been co-opted by conservatives to push their political agenda. For this group, Christianity is less a means for spiritual enrichment and more a means to steer an ideology, as evidenced by the Seven Mountain Mandate, which urges Christians to take control of seven components of society. Instead of promoting social justice, respecting the dignity of every human being and seeing Christ in all people, the evangelicals use Christianity—and what they espouse as Christianity is far afield from the New Testament—in a coercive way to get what they want. Listen to our conversation with Rev. Vicki Zust, rector of St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Upper Arlington, Ohio.

80. What’s up with banning books?

80. What’s up with banning books?

Why is it we see a wave of people demanding that certain books to be banned? Are these folks voicing their own personal objections based on their own reading, or are they voicing a philosophical bent based on what they’re heard about books? And how is that parents who object to a certain book for their children want the book to be banned for all children? Since when do parents get to decide what’s best for someone else’s children?Donna M. Zuiderweg, chief community engagement officer for the Columbus Metropolitan Library, explains the process libraries use to select books and decide where to shelve them and how challenges can be made. She reminds us just how valuable a resource our library system is and how important it is to maintain it.

79. The appeal of selling drugs

79. The appeal of selling drugs

When your options are limited, selling drugs is the answer. Our guest, Buddy, grew up in a low income, high crime Cincinnati neighborhood, with four siblings and a single mom who earned a modest wage. Selling drugs was the answer to getting what he needed—clothes, cash, security. Buddy started out by counting cash for established dealers and by 16 was running his own enterprise. And then at age 21, it came to an end. A competing drug seller told the police what was needed to send Buddy to prison for 30 years. After thinking about life for the first 20 years, Buddy obtained a GED, studied technical courses, and aligned himself with Kindway, a prison ministry that helps inmates transition to life outside the walls. Released in 2023, Buddy says with joy, “I paid for my sins” and is gainfully employed. Buddy may earn less than he did back in the day, but he’s at peace.

78. Citizens not politicians in Ohio should be drawing election maps

78. Citizens not politicians in Ohio should be drawing election maps

Why is it that elected officials can’t draw fair legislative election maps? Despite state constitutional amendments for redistricting reform approved by Ohio voters in 2015 and 2018, Ohio remains heavily gerrymandered because politicians disregarded the mandate they were given. Former Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court Maureen O’Connor struck down as unconstitutional multiple proposed maps. Now as part of Citizens Not Politicians, O’Connor is leading the effort to place a constitutional amendment on this year’s ballot. If the amendment is approved, a commission of 15 citizens—not politicians or anyone politically connected—will be created to handle the matter of drawing legislative districts.O’Connor explains why the 2024 proposed amendment will be the most important issue on the ballot for Ohioans, perhaps even more than who becomes president.

77. Juvenile detention centers—the last place where you want your child

77. Juvenile detention centers—the last place where you want your child

In theory, juvenile detention centers are places where kids who have committed felonies are helped with their criminal tendencies and behavioral needs, but we’re hearing more about violence than anything else. These are high need kids. Many have suffered trauma—family members murdered, abuse, neglect. Plus, they’re kids; their brains aren’t fully developed. Adding to the problem, Ohio’s Department of Youth Services can’t fill all the openings it has for correctional officers, behavioral specialists and teachers. The system isn’t working. Listen to what award-winning journalist Laura Bischoff learned from her investigation.

76. Dr. Anthony Feinstein on the moral courage of investigative journalists

76. Dr. Anthony Feinstein on the moral courage of investigative journalists

What makes journalists risk their lives in war zones or imprisonment by autocratic governments? Award-winning psychiatrist Anthony Feinstein offers his expert perspective on the moral courage investigative journalists exhibit and the post-traumatic stress they suffer. Listen to what Dr. Feinstein, author of Moral Courage: 19 Profiles of Investigative Journalists, has learned from treating journalists and studying their trauma.

75. Teaching men to be dads

75. Teaching men to be dads

You might think being a good dad is something that comes naturally, but you would be wrong. Fatherhood has to be learned, and too many men from low-income neighborhoods, where crime rates are high and stable marriages are few, never learn how to be dads. Many kids grow up without the stability of a caring family and good role models; all some kids learn is survival. David Fluellen tells us what his non-profit, Dads2B, does to teach men the kind of things they never learned, like getting involved in their partners’ prenatal care and listening to their partners’ needs, and then helps these men find meaningful work so they can support their children. Listen to the conversation.

74. Issues 1 and 2 take center stage on the Ohio ballot this November 7.

74. Issues 1 and 2 take center stage on the Ohio ballot this November 7.

The big issues on the ballot in Ohio this November 7 are Issues 1 and 2. Both will likely make the national news.Jack and Gonzo discuss the proposed constitutional amendment protecting a woman’s right to have an abortion, and the citizen initiative proposing a statue to legalize recreational marijuana. Why are these issues on the ballot, and what are the pros and cons being advanced by special interest groups? Listen to the conversation