Paternal

Four years after the worst of the COVID pandemic, is it really possible that America is still trapped in an epidemic of loneliness and isolation? Many of the nation’s experts believe it’s true, so much so that U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy released a report last year asserting the mortality impact of being socially disconnected is similar to that caused by smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. And the crisis is disproportionately affecting men and young people, leaving many Americans searching for community and a sense of belonging. On this episode of Paternal, Harvard Medical School faculty member, philosopher and father Ian Marcus Corbin discusses the value of maintaining a connection to our communities and developing a clear purpose in life. He also discusses why our society’s commitment to individualism and simple conveniences can make it tougher than ever to avoid feeling lonely, and why young people are struggling to feel like they have agency over their lives.

In one of the tightest presidential elections in U.S. history, is it possible that thousands of disaffected young men might be the ones casting the deciding votes? Donald Trump certainly thinks it’s a possibility, and the former president has made a concerted effort to court these Gen Z men through interviews with a constellation of podcast and YouTube stars of the Manoverse. But what’s really driving these men to turn out for Trump, and will the strategy work? On this episode of Paternal, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter John Branch discusses what he learned from speaking with a variety of Gen Z men who have latched onto Trump as their savior. He also breaks down how the Trump campaign has attempted to define their candidate as the ultimate male superhero while attacking Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Tim Walz, bringing different definitions of masculinity to the forefront of the presidential election. Branch is a longtime reporter for the New York Times, and wrote the article “Donald Trump Courts the Manoverse” earlier this year.

Over the past 10 years, Jason Reynolds has become one of the most prolific and celebrated writers working today. He writes for a young audience that he believes is ready to think about and discuss the hard things in life, and he recently added a MacArthur Genius Grant to his collection of awards earned for depicting the rich inner lives of kids of color, ensuring that they see themselves and their communities in literature. But in his latest book, Reynolds is writing for the first time about boys’ emotions and questions surrounding sex and intimacy. And he’s also thinking about why no one ever asks boys or men about their complex interior lives when it comes to these  essential subjects. On this episode of Paternal, Reynolds discusses writing a love story for black boys, what he learned from his father about facing tough challenges in life, and how his father taught him to live a complete life, even on his deathbed. Reynolds’ new book Twenty-Four Seconds from Now… is available wherever you buy books.

Gary Vider is the son of a con man. His father Manny ran a series of schemes in and around New York City for years while Gary was growing up, including dozens of times when father and son conned their way into Madison Square Garden while posing as media members for Sports Illustrated for Kids. Gary met some of the biggest names in sports -  John Elway, Mario Lemieux, and even Michael Jordan - all because Manny had what all good con artists have: The ability to ignore all the possible consequences of his actions. “Most people can’t do it,” Gary says, “but my dad was the master.” But what happens when those actions destroy a family, and leave a son isolated from his father for almost 25 years? On this episode of Paternal, Gary looks back on growing up with a con man for a father, what he learned by trying to reconnect with his dad decades later, and why it took becoming a father himself to question what he really knew or believed about his own dad. Gary Vider is the host of the podcast #1 Dad.

Once you hear the story of the Black civil liberties group MOVE, it’s almost impossible to believe you had never learned about it before. Dubbed by some as a cult and by others as revolutionaries in the mold of The Black Panther Party, MOVE members railed against racial injustice and inequality in Philadelphia during the 1970s and early 80s, frequently clashing with police. A number of MOVE’s members were either jailed or killed as a result, leaving its younger generation to make sense of the legacy of MOVE and how the group’s actions shaped their lives. On this episode of Paternal, MOVE member Mike Africa, Jr. discusses his parents’ imprisonment for the murder of a police officer, and how he made peace with the knowledge that he was born in a Philadelphia jail cell. He also discusses meeting his father for the first time in prison, the experience of watching his father walk free after 40 years inside, and the challenges of raising his own kids in the shadow of MOVE. Africa is the author of the memoir On A Move, Philadelphia’s Notorious Bombing And A Native Son’s Lifelong Battle For Justice, which is available now wherever you buy books.

After a particularly feverish Twitter rant in 2018 landed him an invite to write a guest opinion on boys and violence from The New York Times, Michael Ian Black had to ask one simple question: Are you sure you want me? After all, Black is best known as a sketch and standup comic, and a particularly snarky one at that. But he wrote the essay and it subsequently went viral, leading Black to eventually pen the 2020 memoir A Better Man: A (Mostly Serious) Letter To My Son, which offers a candid take on his own boyhood, the death of his father, and why he’s concerned for his own son’s future. On this 2022 episode of Paternal, Black recounts his adolescent experience of desperately seeking all the secrets of manhood, why he tinged his own successful brand of humor with defensive sarcasm, why even the most influential male comics rarely delve into painful vulnerability, and where he failed and succeeded as a father to his two children.

Over the past few years comedian and filmmaker W. Kamau Bell has become one of America’s most recognizable purveyors of humor and smart social commentary. And his success is due in large part to his willingness to tackle thorny topics like race, sexual assault, education, and policing, be it as a standup comic, an Emmy-nominated reality show host, or from behind the camera as a documentary filmmaker.  On this episode of Paternal, Bell discusses his latest film 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed and his own personal experience of raising his three mixed-race daughters, male vulnerability and dad jokes in his comedy, and how he’s reckoned with the truth about “America’s Dad,” Bill Cosby. Bell’s film 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed is now streaming on MAX.

Everyone at some point has ridden in the back of an Uber, but how often do we think about the people behind the wheel, or how they got there? Jonathan Rigsby had a master’s degree and a full-time job when he gave his first Uber ride, reeling from a painful divorce and seeking a way to help support his young son. But Uber’s promises of big bucks and a flexible schedule were soon replaced by long nights filled with despair as Rigsby realized he, like millions of other Americans, had been trapped in the cycle of the gig economy. On this episode of Paternal, Rigsby recounts how his divorce led him to the brink of poverty and why he picked up a second job driving all over town, but also what it’s really like to work for Uber, where wages are never quite what they seem and you can still feel lonely when the backseat is full. Rigsby is the author of Drive: Scraping by in Uber’s America, which is available wherever you buy books.

Peter Doocy isn’t the first guest to appear on Paternal as the son of a very famous father, but he’s definitely the only one who can claim to have an “adverserial bromance” with President Joe Biden. As the Senior White House Correspondent for Fox News, Doocy’s made it his job since 2021 to pepper the president and members of his administration with questions about immigration, inflation or international affairs, and in the process has become one of the network’s most recognizable figures - just like his father. On this episode of Paternal, Doocy discusses what it was like to grow up as the son of the affable “Fox and Friends” host Steve Doocy and if the family name ever held him back as a journalist, how he approaches fame, fatherhood and social media, and how becoming a dad himself has changed his opinion of Biden as the country’s most famous empathetic father figure. Doocy is the host of the three-part series entitled “Strike Zone: The Congressional Baseball Shooting,” which is now streaming on Fox Nation.

Paternal celebrates Father’s Day with a special episode paying tribute to all the new dads out there celebrating the holiday for the first time. Three past guests are back on the show to offer their thoughts on the early days of fatherhood and the challenges of becoming a new father, but also on the value of patience, the power a village has to raise a child, and why it’s so important to reconsider what we mean when we think of the word “sacrifice.” Guests on this episode of Paternal include: Author and professor Jesse Thistle, who penned the 2020 memoir From the Ashes and the 2022 collection of poems and stories, Stars and Scars. CNN political commentator and attorney Bakari Sellers, author of the 2024 release The Moment: Thoughts on the Race Reckoning That Wasn't and How We All Can Move Forward Now. Author and Wilshire Boulevard Temple Senior Rabbi Steve Leder, who wrote the 2022 book For You When I Am Gone: Twelve Essential Questions to Tell a Life Story.

Michael Andor Brodeur is a “big man.” That’s the term he uses to describe himself after more than 30 years of lifting weights - some of those spent as a powerlifter, and all of those spent not just trying to get fit, but to get big. But for all the time he’s spent in the gym over the years, he’s probably spent just as much time thinking about the way men think about the connection between men, muscles, and masculinity. On this episode of Paternal, Brodeur discusses the concept of getting big and why some men are so motivated to do so, the connection between how men build their bodies and their inability to express themselves emotionally, how some men use weightlifting to deal with issues like anxiety, grief and addiction, and why the gym is a place where men are free to fail and support one another when they do fail, two things they might not be encouraged to do in other parts of society. Brodeur is the classical music critic at the Washington Post and the author of the book, Swole: The Making of Men and the Meaning of Muscle, which is available wherever you buy books.

When you’re talking to Bakari Sellers about fatherhood, you’re talking to a man who truly is a link between generations. As the son of a famous Civil Rights activist who befriended the likes of Stokely Carmichael and Martin Luther King, Jr., Sellers feels the weight of expectations from his ancestors and his community. And as the father of two young twins, he feels the pressure of helping ensure the world is better for them than it ever was for him. But what happens when that pressure sometimes feels like too much? And what happens when, despite all the work he and his father have done to make it so, he simply can’t tell his kids everything will be okay? On this episode of Paternal, Sellers discusses why he sees his life as an extension of his father’s journey, how he copes with anxiety, his relationship to anger, and why he thinks the U.S. has reached a nadir after George Floyd’s death failed to produce a racial reckoning so many expected. Sellers is a political commentator for CNN and a former state legislator from South Carolina, as well as the author of the new book The Moment, which is available now wherever you buy books.

If you were a child of the 1980s and early 1990s, you lived through a golden age for sitcom dads. From The Cosby Show to Growing Pains and Roseanne to The Simpsons, fathers of all kinds ruled the airwaves for roughly a decade, providing an entire generation of wide-eyed kids a glimpse into what a father should look like and, for better or worse, what a family can be. But did these portrayals of paternal figures do more harm than good, and how did Friends and Seinfeld land a fatal blow to the fate of sitcom dads? Comedy historian and author Saul Austerlitz joins this episode of Paternal to take a deep dive on the history of the family sitcom, tracing the genre’s roots back to the dawn of television. He discusses how fathers were first portrayed in the 1950s and how they have evolved during each decade thereafter, including iconic sitcom dads on Leave it to Beaver, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, Roseanne, and The Simpsons. Austerlitz is a faculty member at NYU who teaches courses on writing about American comedy and writing about television drama, and he’s the author of six books, including on the history of sitcoms and the success of the hit series Friends. He recently wrote an article in The Atlantic entitled “Dad Culture Has Nothing to Do With Parenting.”

Paternal listeners email the show regularly with requests to cover various topics on the show. Some are serious and some are silly, but one request just keeps coming: How do we teach our kids resilience? Dr. Dennis S. Charney is a leading expert in the study of resilience and has spent decades examining the causes of anxiety, fear and depression. He’s also interviewed prisoners of war, victims of rape and assault, survivors of natural disasters, and frontline healthcare workers about the traits that have helped them overcome trauma, all in an effort to better understand how we can all learn to be more resilient. On this episode of Paternal, Dr. Charney discusses some of the most compelling factors to building resilience in yourself and your kids, including facing your fears, developing social groups, and establishing core values for you and your family. He also recounts a life-threatening experience that tested his own resilience, decades after living a charmed life studying the challenges of others. Dr. Charney is the co-author of Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life’s Greatest Challenges.

Rob Flanagan is a husband and father who lives with his family outside of Boulder, Colorado, and roughly one year ago he and his wife Dana began an ordeal that changed their lives. After a few days of fighting a cold and a slight fever while missing out on attending kindergarten, their daughter Saoirse was suddenly hospitalized and then intubated, and it was unclear if she would ever wake up.  On this episode of Paternal, Flanagan recounts the experience of spending days in the ICU with his wife while they awaited word on the health of their daughter, what the doctor’s diagnosis meant for their family, and how he learned to embrace both acceptance and hope on the path to becoming a better father.

Growing up on the Wasauksing First Nation indigenous reserve in Ontario, journalist and bestselling author Waubgeshig Rice learned early in his life about the value of culture and community. But as an Anishinaabe young man schooled in the challenges his ancestors faced as indigenous people in Canada, Rice was also keenly aware of what happens when a community loses its connection to its history, traditions and culture, and how men can easily fall victim to the effects of intergenerational trauma. On this 2022 episode of Paternal, Rice recounts his experience on Wasauksing First Nation and his sometimes conflicted emotions about growing up on the reserve, as well as the challenges his own father faced in trying to reclaim the family’s Anishinaabe identity. Rice - who penned the celebrated apocalyptic thriller Moon of the Crusted Snow as well as the recently released follow-up Moon of the Turning Leaves, and was dubbed “one of the leading voices reshaping North American science fiction, horror and fantasy” by the New York Times - also discusses the emotional strain he experienced after the complicated birth of his first son, and how masculinity and vulnerability are valued on “the rez.”

Most people know Kwame Alexander as the Newbery Medal-winning author of The Crossover, the bestselling children’s book about two young brothers hooked on basketball. Long before he was an award-winning author, however, Alexander spent his time writing love poems, in an attempt to impress women and find his voice as a poet and a young man.  But three decades and two marriages later, Alexander is a 54-year-old father of two now reconsidering those relationships from his past, and what exactly he knows - and doesn’t know - about love. And in order to do that, he’s thinking more about the marriage his parents modeled for him as a child, as well as what he learned about love and relationships from his father, a hard-nosed Baptist minister who rarely showed affection. Alexander’s book, Why Fathers Cry at Night, is available wherever you buy books, as is his latest collection of poems, This Is the Honey: An Anthology of Contemporary Black Poets. Episode Timestamps: 00:00 - 07:25 - Intro 07:25 - 09:50 - on learning to love from watching our parents’ relationship 09:50 - 19:47 - discussing Kwame Alexander’s father’s version of tough love 19:47 - 24:26 - digging into his father’s jazz collection 26:31 - 32:40 - on the vulnerability required to write about broken relationships 32:40 - 35:36 - on talking to our parents and children about love Read The Transcript For This Episode

Longtime political journalist Tim Alberta spent more than three years speaking with pastors and churchgoers across the country in a search for answers about what’s happening in contemporary Evangelicalism. Why were so many congregations becoming more political, and seemingly less invested in traditional Christian values? Why were they so motivated by fear? How could so many Evangelicals support Donald Trump, who doesn’t share their beliefs? And what do all these dramatic changes mean for the future of Evangelicals in the United States, including Alberta's three young sons? On this episode of Paternal, Alberta discusses his life as an Evangelical Christian, the influence of his born-again Christian father, what he learned about Evangelicalism from speaking with today’s church leaders, and why some churchgoers confronted him at his own father’s funeral about politics in the era of Trump. Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the author of the New York Times bestselling book The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, which is available now wherever you buy books.

Curtis Chin spent most of his childhood looking for a comfortable place to sit. And that was especially difficult for Chin, who grew up in the 1970s and 80s as one of six kids raised by parents who owned Chung’s Cantonese Cuisine, one of the most revered Chinese restaurants in Detroit. Despite its location in one of the roughest neighborhoods in the city, the restaurant sold more than four thousand egg rolls every week and was frequented by celebrities like Joni Mitchell, Smokey Robinson, and Senator Eugene McCarthy. On this episode of Paternal, Chin reflects on the experience of growing up in the sweaty back kitchen of a Chinese restaurant, and reflects on what he learned from his father, a charismatic waiter who happily welcomed local dignitaries from City Hall along with pimps and prostitutes from down the block. Chin also discusses the challenge of being a young gay man during the height of the AIDS crisis, and the legacy of Chung’s, which made an unexpected return to his life long after he thought he’d left it behind. Chin’s memoir, Everything I Learned, I Learned in a Chinese Restaurant, is available wherever you buy books.

Paternal closes out the year with a collection of the best conversations from 2023, curating five of the best segments from the past year into one collection. On this episode, Paternal guests discuss a variety of topics including the challenges of raising mixed-race kids, how father-son relationships impacted some of the biggest rock acts of the 1990s, how burnout at work can affect your parenting, dealing with grief after the loss of a partner, and how we can hold all the good and bad of life together in the same hands. Guests on this episode of Paternal include comedian and filmmaker W. Kamau Bell, rock critic and podcast host Rob Harvilla, author and professor Jonathan Malesic, author and professor Matthew Salesses, and New York Times bestselling author and poet Clint Smith. Stay tuned for all new episodes of Paternal in 2024. Episode Timestamps: 00:00 - 02:01 - Introduction 02:01 - 05:29 - W. Kamau Bell on discussions with his wife about racism and feminism 05:29 - 10:28 - W. Kamau Bell on raising mixed-race kids 11:31 - 19:47 - Rob Harvilla on father/son themes in 90s rock songs 19:47 - 22:34 - Rob Harvilla on discussing hard subjects with his kids 23:29 - 25:33 - Jonathan Malesic on his experience with burnout 25:33 - 34:16 - Jonathan Malesic on the three criteria for burnout and how men deal with burnout differently that women 35:23 - 40:02 - Matthew Salesses on the death of his wife and the connection to K Dramas 40:02 - 44:51 - Matthew Salesses on coping with grief with his kids 46:12 - 52:22 - Clint Smith on becoming a father and the double-sided nature of parenting 52:22 - 57:17 - Clint Smith on what he’s good at what and he struggles with as a father Read The Transcript For This Episode Learn more about Paternal and sign up for our newsletter at www.paternalpodcast.com. You can also email host Nick Firchau at nick@paternalpodcast.com with any comments or suggestions for men he should profile on the show. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening, then keep an eye on your feed for new episodes.