The INDEED Evaluation Podcast

INDEED Project

The INDEED Evaluation Podcast interviews leading practitioners, experts, policy makers, researchers and evaluators working in the fields of evidence-based evaluation, policy and practice in preventing and countering violent extremism and de-radicalisation. The podcast of the INDEED Project – www.indeedproject.eu – the podcast is made possible due to the generous funding of the European Commission.

The INDEED Projects has received funding by the European Union’s Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme H2020-SU-SEC-2020 under grant agreement no 101021701.

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Ep. 15 Leena Malkki "Strengthening cooperation between researchers, policymakers and practitioners"

Ep. 15 Leena Malkki "Strengthening cooperation between researchers, policymakers and practitioners"

In this episode Kai Brand-Jacobsen sits down with Dr. Lena Malkki, a leading expert in the field of Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE) and de-radicalisation. Together, they dive deep into the critical role of collaboration in these areas, highlighting how involving evaluators early in the process can bridge the gap between on-the-ground realities and research insights, leading to more effective, evidence-based outcomes. Dr. Malkki shares her insights on the unique advantages academic researchers bring, particularly their deep understanding of the sensitive and complex nature of violent extremism, and how this complements the technical expertise of consultancies.They also explore the growing importance of institutional mechanisms like conferences and knowledge hubs that facilitate collaboration between researchers, policymakers, and practitioners. These platforms are essential for not only sharing evaluation results but also for exchanging good practices and lessons learned, helping to elevate the field as a whole. Additionally, Dr. Malkki discusses innovative proposals for creating repositories and communities of practice that could revolutionize the approach to evaluations in PCVE and de-radicalisation.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Episodes

Ep. 15 Leena Malkki "Strengthening cooperation between researchers, policymakers and practitioners"

Ep. 15 Leena Malkki "Strengthening cooperation between researchers, policymakers and practitioners"

In this episode Kai Brand-Jacobsen sits down with Dr. Lena Malkki, a leading expert in the field of Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE) and de-radicalisation. Together, they dive deep into the critical role of collaboration in these areas, highlighting how involving evaluators early in the process can bridge the gap between on-the-ground realities and research insights, leading to more effective, evidence-based outcomes. Dr. Malkki shares her insights on the unique advantages academic researchers bring, particularly their deep understanding of the sensitive and complex nature of violent extremism, and how this complements the technical expertise of consultancies.They also explore the growing importance of institutional mechanisms like conferences and knowledge hubs that facilitate collaboration between researchers, policymakers, and practitioners. These platforms are essential for not only sharing evaluation results but also for exchanging good practices and lessons learned, helping to elevate the field as a whole. Additionally, Dr. Malkki discusses innovative proposals for creating repositories and communities of practice that could revolutionize the approach to evaluations in PCVE and de-radicalisation.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 14 Lotta Rahlf "Insights from country-comparative analysis of PCVE evaluation structures & capacities"

Ep. 14 Lotta Rahlf "Insights from country-comparative analysis of PCVE evaluation structures & capacities"

In this episode, we dive into the fascinating research of Lotta Ralph, a doctoral candidate at the Peace Research Institute in Frankfurt, who is exploring the evaluation structures and capacities in preventing and countering violent extremism (PCVE) across Europe. Lotta shares insights from her comprehensive study spanning 21 European countries, highlighting how political decision-makers, civil society organizations, and researchers interact to produce and utilize high-quality, evidence-based evaluations. We discuss the challenges of creating effective evaluation systems, the role of knowledge management, and the potential for innovative approaches to enhance the impact of PCVE initiatives. Tune in to learn about the future of evaluation in this critical field and how it can inform better policy and practice.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 13 Kamala Chandrakirana "Grounding the Learning Journey in communities of practice"

Ep. 13 Kamala Chandrakirana "Grounding the Learning Journey in communities of practice"

In this episode, we are joined by Kamala Chandrakirana, a distinguished human rights activist with extensive experience in gender equality and social justice. Kamala Chandrakirana discussed the inadequacies and biases prevalent in traditional monitoring and evaluation (M&E) practices, often led by so-called experts who lack contextual understanding. These evaluations typically reflect the prejudices and perceptions of the evaluators, failing to provide genuine insights or foster meaningful impact. The civil society organizations, dependent on these evaluations for grants, often respond in ways they believe are expected, further diminishing the process's authenticity and productivity. In response, Kamala introduced a paradigm that focuses on understanding impact through a process of collective learning grounded in the experiences of partners on the ground.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 12 Deepthy Menon "Feminist Thinking on Evaluation"

Ep. 12 Deepthy Menon "Feminist Thinking on Evaluation"

In this episode we meet Deepthy Menon from Urgent Action Fund Asia and the Pacific, where she leads the Shifting Narratives and organisational learning initiatives. Deepthy brings a fresh perspective on reimagining feminist evaluation and reshaping power dynamics in the development sector. Deepthy delves into the core challenges and opportunities in transforming traditional evaluation methods. She argues that traditional evaluations, often imposed by donors, can feel abusive and judgmental. Instead, she advocates for approaches that support peacebuilding, agency, and collective progress, promoting evaluation as a tool for change rather than a mere endpoint.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 11 Peter Muyshondt "What Practitioners Need from Evaluation A View from the Belgian Police"

Ep. 11 Peter Muyshondt "What Practitioners Need from Evaluation A View from the Belgian Police"

In this interview, Peter Muyshondt, Chief of Police in Rupel, Belgium, sheds light on the evaluation needs within the Belgian police force, particularly regarding their approach to radicalization prevention and intervention. Belgium's police system operates at both local and federal levels, with local police focusing on prevention and federal counterparts on repressive measures, all under a coordinated mechanism chaired by local mayors. Despite this structure, a critical challenge identified is the lack of comprehensive evaluation practices to assess the effectiveness of their strategies. The police force requires external evaluators equipped with robust indicators to conduct thorough evaluations, as internal resources and time constraints limit their ability to do so independently. By integrating straightforward evaluation tools and involving frontline officers in the process, the aim is to enhance practical learning and continuous improvement within police operations.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 10 Radar Advies "The RAN Peer and Self Review Manual for Exit Work"

Ep. 10 Radar Advies "The RAN Peer and Self Review Manual for Exit Work"

In this Knowledge Series interview, Fenna Keijzer and Maarten van de Donk discuss how organizations can effectively review their processes, learn from evaluations, and avoid the phenomenon known as "Evaluation Panic." Keijzer and van de Donk, both senior advisers at RadarAdvies, share insights from their work with "Exit" programs designed to help individuals disengage from extremist groups. They emphasize the importance of evaluations—particularly peer and self-reviews—as tools to demonstrate effectiveness, foster accountability, and drive continuous improvement.The discussion covers the preparation, implementation, and post-evaluation steps necessary for successful evaluations, highlighting the need for management support, strategic stakeholder engagement, and clear communication to mitigate evaluation-related anxiety and skepticism. Practical tips include investing in thorough preparation, initiating evaluations in a stable environment, and maintaining consistency in the evaluation process to ensure actionable insights and sustained improvement.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 9 Gazbiah Sans "Gendered Approaches to Evaluation How to Embed Gender Evaluation in Initiative Design"

Ep. 9 Gazbiah Sans "Gendered Approaches to Evaluation How to Embed Gender Evaluation in Initiative Design"

In this Knowledge Series interview, we delve into the expertise of Gazbiah SANS, Director of PCVE work, renowned for her extensive background in gender inclusion and mainstreaming within fragile and conflict-affected contexts. With over 15 years of experience, Gazbiah has notably collaborated with USAID on addressing Boko Haram issues in Cameroon and contributed to initiatives in Afghanistan with the World Bank.Currently, she serves on the internal review panel of the Global Community Engagement and Resilience Fund, focusing on preventing violent extremism through innovative projects. The discussion centers on embedding gender evaluation in initiative design, exploring Gazbiah's insights gleaned from frontline efforts to integrate gender perspectives effectively into P/CVE strategies.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 8 Kai Brand-Jacobsen "Designing Evidence-Based Initiatives in the PCVE realm"

Kai Brand-Jacobsen, President of the Romanian Peace Institute (PATRIR) and Director of the Department of Peace Operations (DPO), shares his insights on designing evidence-based initiatives in the peacebuilding and conflict resolution realm. With over 25 years of experience, Brand-Jacobsen emphasizes the importance of grounding initiatives in robust evidence, engaging all relevant stakeholders, and maintaining honesty and realism to achieve meaningful impact. He addresses common misconceptions about evidence-based work and highlights the necessity of testing assumptions, fostering a community of practice, and mitigating the risks of false positives and negatives.Additionally, he underscores the critical role of effective, practical training and the value of cross-disciplinary learning to enhance competencies in peacebuilding and countering violent extremism.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 7 Kai Brand-Jacobsen "Conducting Evidence-Based Evaluation in the PCVE and De-Radicalisation Fields"

In an insightful interview, Kai Brand-Jacobsen, President of the Romanian Peace Institute and a seasoned expert in peacebuilding, emphasizes the critical need for evidence-based evaluation in the fields of Preventing/Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE) and de-radicalization. With over 25 years of experience, Brand-Jacobsen discusses the evolving role of evaluation from merely a donor-imposed requirement to a vital tool for practitioners to understand and enhance their strategies. He highlights the importance of balancing academic rigor with practical usability, involving practitioners and communities throughout the evaluation process, and fostering a culture where evaluation is seen as empowering and participatory.The future, he suggests, lies in improving evaluation culture, promoting collaborative approaches, building a global community, and ensuring policy integration based on solid evaluation evidence.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 6 Sophie Ebbecke "Learning from the PrEval Experience"

Ep. 6 Sophie Ebbecke "Learning from the PrEval Experience"

In the realm of Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE), rigorous evaluation practices play a pivotal role in shaping effective strategies. Sophie Ebbecke, a Research Associate at the Global Public Policy Institute in Berlin, provides insights into the PrEval Initiative, focusing on advancing evaluation methodologies within P/CVE, civic education, and democracy promotion. Through international expert surveys spanning 14 countries, the initiative examines diverse perspectives on evaluation practices, aiming to identify key actors, funding mechanisms, and methodological tools currently utilized in the field.Despite challenges such as limited funding and varying levels of evaluation expertise among practitioners, there is a growing consensus on the necessity of enhancing evaluation awareness and capabilities. By leveraging insights from adjacent disciplines and fostering a community of practice, the initiative seeks to refine approaches and strengthen the impact of P/CVE efforts globally.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 5: Rut Bermejo Casado "Policy Evaluation: Challenges, Difficulties and What can be Improved"

Ep. 5: Rut Bermejo Casado "Policy Evaluation: Challenges, Difficulties and What can be Improved"

The interview focuses on the challenges and potential improvements in policy evaluation, particularly in the realm of preventing and countering violent extremism (P/CVE) and de-radicalization (DeRad). Featuring Rut Bermejo Casado, an associate professor at University Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid, the discussion delves into the crucial role of policy evaluation as the final stage of the policy cycle. Bermejo Casado, an expert in politics and public policies, highlights the necessity of various evaluation types, such as formative, ex-ante, and final evaluations, to ensure policies effectively address their goals. She identifies significant challenges in policy evaluation, including the lack of an evaluation culture, sensitivity of information, resource constraints, and insufficient stakeholder involvement. The conversation underscores the need for a cultural shift towards embracing evaluation, allocating more resources, and fostering collaboration among stakeholders. Recommendations for academics and policymakers emphasize the value of evaluation, the importance of external evaluations, and the need to promote a positive public perception of evaluation processes.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 4: Norbert Leonhardmair "Gender, Ethical and Societal Aspects of Evaluation of P/CVE"

Ep. 4: Norbert Leonhardmair "Gender, Ethical and Societal Aspects of Evaluation of P/CVE"

In this episode, Norbert Leonhardmair, a researcher and project manager at the Vienna Centre for Social Security (VICESSE), discusses the critical role of gender, ethics, and societal aspects in the evaluation of preventing and countering violent extremism (P/CVE) initiatives. The INDEED Project utilizes the Gender, Ethical, Legal, and Societal Aspects (GELSA) framework, inspired by the UN Human Rights Approach, to ensure that de-radicalization efforts are both theoretically and practically sound. Leonhardmair emphasizes the importance of addressing gender-specific aspects of radicalization, which have often been overlooked, particularly the unique needs of women and girls and the redefinition of masculinity. Additionally, the project highlights the necessity of engaging with vulnerable groups, urging practitioners to consider the diverse and contextual vulnerabilities individuals may face, thus bridging the gap between policy and practice. The project’s Evidence-Based Evaluation Model and Tool, which integrates GELSA, aims to enhance the efficacy and inclusiveness of P/CVE strategies.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 3: Aileen Van Leewen "Introduction to Monitoring and Evaluation in the Counter-Terrorism & P/CVE Fields"

Ep. 3: Aileen Van Leewen "Introduction to Monitoring and Evaluation in the Counter-Terrorism & P/CVE Fields"

In this Knowledge Series interview, Aileen Van Leewen, an M&E Officer at the International Centre for Counterterrorism (ICCT), introduces the fundamentals of Monitoring and Evaluation (M&E) within the Counterterrorism and Preventing/Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE) fields. She highlights the importance of building a culture of evaluation to gain insights, demonstrate effectiveness, ensure accountability, and empower stakeholders. Addressing common challenges and misconceptions, such as the difficulty of measuring non-events and the perceived sensitivity of evaluations, Aileen Van Leewen advocates for evidence-based practices to enhance organizational capacity and transparency. The establishment of ICCT’s M&E Center of Excellence aims to revolutionize evaluation practices, promote multi-stakeholder collaboration, and integrate M&E into all initiatives, fostering sustainable and effective counterterrorism efforts.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 2: Michael Quinn Patton "How to Act on/and Make Sense of Evidence"

Ep. 2: Michael Quinn Patton "How to Act on/and Make Sense of Evidence"

In this Knowledge Series Interview, Michael Q. Patton, a trailblazer in the evaluation field and Founder and CEO of Utilization-Focused Evaluation, discusses the critical importance of interpretive capacity over mere data accuracy. With over five decades of experience and several influential books to his name, Patton emphasizes that the ability to interpret environmental contexts is more crucial than just having accurate knowledge. He argues that high-performing organizations excel due to their capacity for meaningful interpretation, which aids in making sound judgments. Patton delves into evaluative thinking, highlighting its transdisciplinary nature, the pitfalls of bureaucratic compliance, and the necessity of timely decision-making. He advocates for a global, interconnected perspective on evaluation, stressing that deep thinking and a commitment to understanding context are essential. Evaluators, he contends, should act as facilitators of interpretation, fostering learning and informed decision-making beyond mere report generation.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu

Ep. 1: Stephan Klose "Introduction to Evidence-Based Evaluation in the P/CVE and De-Radicalisation Fields."

Ep. 1: Stephan Klose "Introduction to Evidence-Based Evaluation in the P/CVE and De-Radicalisation Fields."

In this episode, Stephan Klose, a Postdoctoral Researcher at the Brussels School of Governance, provided valuable insights into Evidence-Based Evaluation (EBE) within the fields of Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism (P/CVE) and de-radicalization. With extensive academic background including a PhD from VUB and an MA from Lund University, Klose has dedicated the past two years to studying EBE policies and practices.The interview delved into the nuanced understanding and implications of Evidence-Based (EB) concepts, highlighting their role as a cornerstone in contemporary policy frameworks. Central to EB practices are a meticulous review of existing evidence, informed professional judgment, and a conscientious consideration of community values and circumstances. Klose emphasized the reciprocal relationship between evaluation processes and EB practices, advocating for rigorous research methodologies to underpin effective policy decisions. Recognizing the challenges of accessibility and stakeholder engagement, particularly in sourcing and utilizing evidence effectively, Klose underscored the need for comprehensive, inclusive approaches to enhance the impact of P/CVE initiatives worldwide.See also the video interview here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG366E4Mgf7-3nOd-Dh0Bto1IZFiU6Ax6For more information about the INDEED Project visit our website: www.indeedproject.eu