A Pastor and a Philosopher Walk into a Bar

Text us your questions!This episode was recorded live at Theology Beer Camp 2024. We sat down with Brian McLaren and Tim Whitaker (from The New Evangelicals podcast) to discuss Brian's history in the emerging church movement, the current progressive religious movement (of which we're a part), the Christian nationalist backlash, and our political moment. For those of us who think of ourselves as progressive Christians, it's tempting to feel like we're carving a brand new space out of the ashes of evangelicalism, but of course there's a long history to what's happening now. Brian helps us think about where we've been, where we are now, and what might come next. This conversation was very impromptu, off the cuff, and occasionally raw. There are warnings but also hope and (from Brian at least) wisdom. We hope it's meaningful to you.The books mentioned in this episode are:Prequel by Rachel MaddowA Fever in the Heartland by Timothy EganCheck out the (unedited) video of this conversation here.Content note: This episode contains profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Jeff Cook is back with us to dive deeper into our conversation from a while back about the soul and why Kyle is a materialist (and why Randy thinks he's silly for it). We discuss the difference between the claim that God is non-physical and the claim that humans are, Jeff's reservations about materialism, the mystery of the Incarnation and Christ's dual natures, reduction in science, and a lot more.If you'd like to ask a question about a recent episode to be featured on one of these bonus segments, email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!After more than three years, Kristin Kobes Du Mez is back on the show to discuss her new short film For Our Daughters, which examines the connection between the culture of submission and sexual abuse within the evangelical church and the Christian nationalist effort to influence the 2024 presidential election. It tells harrowing stories of survival and coverup and puts a spotlight on the theological and ecclesial structures that facilitate abuse and wield enormous power in our society. Randy and Elliot chat with Kristin about the film, as well as what she's been up to with the explosion of Jesus and John Wayne since our last conversation.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!More Jim Stump!We hope you loved Part I of our conversation with Dr. Jim Stump as much we did. Here's Part II! In this one, we talk about the problem of evil and more about AI. Also...aliens! Seriously.Cheers!=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Are Christianity and evolution compatible? Can a person trust God and trust science at the same time? Jim Stump wrote a book called The Sacred Chain: How Understanding Evolution Leads to Deeper Faith, and we are very much here for it.In this interview, we chat about the Bible, science, evolution, the soul, afterlife, and many other juicy topics. We actually had so much to talk about that we had to make this a two-parter. Stay tuned!Cheers!=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Welcome to Season 5!We're joined by Sarah McCammon, a National Political Correspondent for NPR and author of The Exvangelicals, an insightful and empathetic look at the stories of those who have left white American evangelicalism. Sarah is also an exvangelical herself, so she has a unique perspective that blends both personal experience and rigorous journalism.The Exvangelicals examines the complex dynamics of leaving a faith community that has deeply influenced one's upbringing and worldview and what it means to build a life after.In our conversation, we explore how evangelical communities interact with broader American culture and the internal narratives they construct about the world. We also discuss identity, personal transformation, the impact of evangelical teachings on concepts of morality and discipline, the practice of corporal punishment, and the effects of these experiences on parenting and trauma.Sarah's dual role as observer and participant brings a nuanced perspective to the discussion and allows her to offer an unusually informed and compassionate look at both the people navigating their way out of evangelical communities and those still inside.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!How do we grow and steward our children's spirituality when we've deconstructed so much of the spirituality that we were raised with? And even if we figure that out, how do we guide and encourage our kids on their spiritual journeys when there are so few quality resources and books that don't get all cheesy and cringe? We aren't the only ones asking these questions, are we?Mariko Clark and Rachel Eleanor wrote and illustrated The Book of Belonging: Bible Stories for Kind and Contemplative Kids, and it is an absolute treasure. The Book of Belonging is a children's storybook Bible that is told in a way that will expand your kids' (and your own) love for God and humans, drawing them into the story and filling them with wonder, identity, and beauty. The illustrations are absolutely stunning. Also, the creators are fun and hilarious. Buckle up and preorder your copy of The Book of Belonging today.To preorder The Book of Belonging, click here.To check out the weird art and iconography Rachel mentioned, here you go:Weirdly Buff and Manly Baby JesusAwkwardly Manly Baby Jesus Baby Jesus with a Six Pack Baby Jesus Breastfeeding And this explainer from Vox: "Why Babies in Medieval Paintings Look like Ugly Old Men"You're welcome. Cheers!=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Good, Bible-believing Christians should just automatically be Republicans. Everybody knows this.Have you heard that sort of argument or been led to believe that this is just the "biblical" way? If so, that probably means you've been given a hearty serving of propaganda. Our friend and philosopher Scott Coley wrote Ministers of Propaganda: Truth, Power and the Ideology of the Religious Right to expose the rhetoric of the religious right for what it often is--propaganda that serves an underlying motivation. In this episode, we chat with Scott about how everything from politics to science, gender, racial issues, and more are propagandized by the religious right to build fear and shut down arguments. Fascinating--and terrifying--stuff.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Evangelical megachurch pastors saying cringe things is nothing new, right? However, there's a point when cringe turns destructive and abusive. That's what this episode is about.Dallas/Ft. Worth megachurch pastor Josh Howerton said some very ugly and destructive things, and then doubled down with a weak (plagiarized) apology. Our friend Sheila Gregoire has some powerful, insightful, and important things to say about what Josh said and the culture that is being cultivated in churches like this.We're so grateful for Sheila's willingness to engage with us about this important topic.Cheers!Content note: This episode contains discussion of sex, abuse, and some profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!We speak with Bruce Reyes-Chow about his recent book Everything Good about God Is True, a primer on what it means to choose faith in the midst of a bleeding world and an often broken church. We discuss the Christian ethic of loving enemies, listening, having compassion across ideological division, embodying faith in the public square, biblical literalism, Christian formation, soteriological exclusivism, the eucharist, missions and colonialism, and that time Bruce hung out with Desmond Tutu.You might notice we're experimenting with some new formatting in this episode. We'd love to hear your thoughts! Drop us a line at the address below or on our social media pages and let us know what you think. Or send along a voice memo to be potentially featured on the show.Content note: this episode contains some profanity, as well as a monologue from John MacArthur, which is worse.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Jeff Cook is back with us to dive deeper into deconstruction, inspired by our interview with Keri Ladouceur, the Executive Director of the Post-Evangelical Collective. We discuss the nature of deconstruction, its corporate, personal, and ethical dimensions, and what it implies about what's next. And because we're nerds, we also touch on ecclesiology and postmodernism.If you'd like to ask a question about a recent episode to be featured on one of these bonus segments, email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com.[Note: episode image generated with AI.]=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Psychologist and author Richard Beck joins us to discuss his recent book Hunting Magic Eels: Recovering an Enchanted Faith in a Skeptical Age. Richard is an engaging critic of some forms of contemporary "disenchanted" spirituality. He's also a fun dialogue partner and a good sport, who was willing to roll with Kyle's annoying philosophy questions. Some stuff we discuss in this conversation:Is our age really disenchanted?Does enchantment need to be transcendent?What's wrong with consumerist spirituality?What about the "spiritual but not religious" crowd?Are Catholics more enchanted than Protestants?What do dancing gorillas and paying attention have to do with God?What about mystical experiences?Is Kyle a narcissist and/or a sociopath?And more!The whiskey we taste in this episode is 4 Roses single barrel 18 year old bourbon.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!David Gushee is back on the show to discuss his book Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies, an erudite, timely, and disturbing take on American democracy, its struggles with authoritarianism, and its place on the global political stage. We discuss such questions as: How are government and morality related? What does the United States have in common with France, Germany, Hungary, or Brazil? How close to fascism are we? How concerned should we be? Can we be in relationship with those who support authoritarian leaders? What is ARC and why can't we remember what it stands for? And a lot more!This is also our first ever in person interview! In case you're wondering, David is even more fun in person.Content note: This episode has some adult themes.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Believe it or not, this is our 100th episode! And what better way to spend it than diving back in with Peter Rollins, a guest who is unusually suited to the regular themes of our show, while also throwing some wrenches into pretty much everything we do. :-)Picking up with where we left off in Part 1, we explore the sense in which Pete is a trinitarian Christian, some differences between Pete's and Kyle's philosophical approaches, the role of certain biblical themes in Pete's thought, his relationship to the historic Christian church, his beef with progressives, and a lot more. And we try really hard to get to the bottom of his whole negative theology thing.You can find the transcript for this episode here.The whiskey we taste in this episode is Barrell 15 Year Gray Label bourbon.Content note: This episode has some adult themes and mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Break out your dictionaries folks, this one got in the weeds a bit. But if you're familiar with Peter Rollins, you're probably not too surprised by that. Peter is a philosopher, public intellectual, and self-described anti-guru who writes and speaks extensively about concepts like the death of God, negative theology, "pyrotheology," and Atheism for Lent. He's been on our list to talk to since we started the podcast, and we're finally making it happen. And wouldn't you know it, we had so much to dig into that we had to talk to him again, so this will be a two-parter.Fair warning: Peter has some challenging things to say, pretty much regardless of where you land on the religious or political spectrum. His ideas are not easy to swallow or to understand, but we did our best to get to the bottom of some of them. And we had a great time doing it. Let us know what you think!You can find the transcript for this episode here.The bourbon we taste in this episode is Weller 12.Content note: This episode has some adult themes and mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Trey Ferguson of the New Living Treyslation and Three Black Men podcasts joins us to discuss his new book Theologizin' Bigger: Homilies on Living Freely and Loving Wholly. We talk about the Bible, the difference between "theologizin'" and theology, the racial dynamics of deconstruction, why evangelicals are so obsessed with "facts," why they're prone to grifters, white theology vs. Black theology, shame, heresy, Twitter (I refuse to call it X), and what "Michael vs. LeBron" has in common with theological frameworks. Trey is insightful, hilarious, gregarious, and humble. We hope you love this conversation as much as we did.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!In this episode, Kyle and Randy discuss the philosophy of the soul and its implications for religious belief, the lived experience of faith, and even ethics. Kyle is a materialist, which means he thinks humans are physical objects, and Randy leans towards dualism, which involves belief in a soul or non-physical part of a human being. Are there any good arguments either way? What do most philosophers think? What are the implications for religion? Does any of it matter? What does it have to do with Donald Trump? This one is definitely on the headier, more philosophical side, so strap in and try to check your assumptions at the door.The bourbon we tasted in this episode is the exquisite cinnamon bomb RD1 Brazilian amburana-finished straight bourbon.To skip to the interview, go to 8:40. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains some profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!... drinking.This is a more personal episode for us, particularly for Randy. As you know, we like alcohol around here, especially whiskey. In this episode, we chat about that and the presence it's had on our podcast and in our lives.Can we have a "healthy relationship" with alcohol? What does that look like? How does that question get answered for each of us in honest ways? How do we responsibly balance our autonomy with the example we want to set for others?Also, what kinds of conversations do we want to cultivate? (Hint: they're not necessarily churchy conversations or purely academic conversations, but conversations you might have in a bar.) What does this mean for the show going forward? And maybe most importantly, is there such a thing as a good mocktail?The NA spirits we mixed in this episode are Monday "whiskey" and Martini Rossi Vibrante.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains some mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!David Gushee is an influential Christian ethicist who famously changed his mind about LGBTQ Christians. His 2014 book Changing Our Mind (now in its third edition) has been celebrated and widely recommended as an honest and forceful reckoning with the ethical issues surrounding LGBTQ Christians and the church's complicity in their exclusion, neglect, and abuse. It is a powerful and well-researched chronicle of David's journey from a traditional stance to an inclusive one, a journey that he completed while remaining theologically conservative. We are honored that David agreed to speak with us about this important book, and we look forward to more conversations about his many others in the near future!The bourbon we tasted in this episode is Hardin's Creek Clermont.To skip to the interview, go to 11:32. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Text us your questions!Philosopher Aaron Simmons joins us to discuss his new book Camping with Kierkegaard. It's all about living life in a way that is "worthy of your finitude," avoiding becoming an "asshole capitalist," and learning how to value the things in your life with the help of folks like Kierkegaard and Simone de Beauvoir. We discuss living faithfully, being present, living on purpose toward something you've chosen, and a lot more. There's a LOT to unpack in this one, and a couple interesting tangents that didn't make it into the final cut, so Patreon supporters, look out for those.The whiskey we tasted in this episode is the Fercullen Irish Whiskey Blend from Bardstown Bourbon Company.Content note: this episode contains some mild profanity. But it's philosophy, so it's fine.To skip the alcohol tasting, go to 6:46. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcastWatch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!