First episode back after a hiatus of several months, so I needed a great guest. Sarah Stachowiak is CEO of the Seattle-based evaluation consulting firm ORS Impact and has been an important role model for me and helped steer me toward becoming an evaluation consultant. Sarah's firm not only does great work for clients, but they provide vital thought leadership through the excellent resources they publish. Sarah and her colleagues advise some of philanthropy's most influential foundations, giving them a broad overview of the work of making change. In our conversation, For instance, Sarah offered an update on foundation attitudes toward supporting advocacy, a realm that some donors have approached with trepidation.

This episode was a chance to speak with someone who relates to advocacy as a social scientist and analyst, a great perspective to bring onto the podcast. Sarah and I talked about the challenges entailed in trying to change the deep-rooted narratives and assumptions that underlie the debates on so many issues. We talked about the trade-offs between seeking small incremental progress versus transformation of an unjust society. We talked about the problems of having a professional class of advocates, and why marginalized communities should have a greater agenda-setting role. We talked about “defensive advocacy” and what organizers do during political tough times. And we concluded with a discussion of clearly defining terms in our field, and why that’s important.