Respecting Religion

BJC

What's at stake for faith freedom for all in our world today? Join the conversation on religion and the law, including the most significant cases concerning religion and religious liberty at the U.S. Supreme Court and the continuing impact of Christian nationalism. As lawyers and people of faith, BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman think these topics deserve respectful conversation -- something that we don’t always hear in the public square or our social media feeds. read less

S4, Ep. 26: SCOTUS decides Groff and 303 Creative
Jul 6 2023
S4, Ep. 26: SCOTUS decides Groff and 303 Creative
The Supreme Court waited until the last two days of its term to release two decisions with religious liberty implications. On this season 4 finale of the Respecting Religion podcast, Amanda and Holly look at the unanimous clarifying decision in Groff v. DeJoy and the deeply regressive decision in 303 Creative v. Elenis. They discuss the implications of both of these decisions, noting the conspicuous lack of snark in Justice Samuel Alito’s Groff decision and Justice Neil Gorsuch’s defensive attempt to make his big decision seem not all that remarkable. SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The clarifying decision in Groff v. DeJoy This season, Amanda and Holly previewed the Groff v. DeJoy case in episode 17 and reviewed the oral arguments in episode 19.  Holly released this statement after the decision on June 29, which was mentioned in this article from SCOTUSblog: Justices rule in favor of evangelical postal worker. Read the decision by Justice Samuel Alito and concurrence by Justice Sonia Sotomayor at this link. For more resources, visit BJC’s page on the case: BJConline.org/Groff.   Segment 2 (starting at 13:08): The problems with the 303 Creative v. Elenis decision Amanda and Holly discussed the oral arguments for 303 Creative v. Elenis in episode 8 – an episode we titled “hypotheticals, reeducation, and a preemptive claim.” Read the opinion by Justice Neil Gorsuch and the dissent by Justice Sonia Sotomayor at this link.   Segment 3 (starting at 38:55): Saying farewell to season four Thank you to our listeners and to everyone who contributes to this program. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.  Visit our website for transcripts of episodes throughout season four: https://bjconline.org/respectingreligion/
S4, Ep. 25: Religion in public schools: New federal guidance and the reality on the ground
Jun 8 2023
S4, Ep. 25: Religion in public schools: New federal guidance and the reality on the ground
It happens in pretty much every administration, but what do you know about federal guidelines on religion in public schools? Holly and Amanda discuss the new release from the Biden administration outlining the different rights of students and teachers, and they share how some are misinterpreting the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision to open the door to more government-sponsored religious exercises. They also look at what we saw happen at the end of the Texas Legislature’s session in relation to bills that would impact religious freedom, and they review this week’s alarming news that an Oklahoma board voted to fund a religious public charter school.    SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): What should we pay attention to in the new guidance on religion in public schools? Amanda and Holly discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision in our season finale last year (season 3, ep. 21). You can read BJC’s brief and see additional resources at BJConline.org/Bremerton. You can read Holly’s column on the new federal guidelines in our summer magazine: Good news on the religious freedom frontlines Read the new guidelines on prayer and religious expression in public schools on the Department of Education’s website. You can watch remarks from Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona on YouTube. Amanda and Holly discussed this piece by Linda Wertheimer published by The New Republic: Inside the Christian legal campaign to return prayer to public schools. You can also read it online via The Hechinger Report.   Segment 2 (starting at 20:43): Texas update Amanda and Holly discussed the proposed Ten Commandments legislation in Texas on episode 20 and episode 21 of this season. Holly and Amanda mentioned this piece by Robert Downen for TheTexas Tribune: Unlicensed religious chaplains may counsel students in Texas’ public schools after lawmakers OK proposal They also mentioned this piece by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Meet the activists who spearheaded the Texas chaplains bill   Segment 3 (starting at 26:53): New news out of Oklahoma Amanda Tweeted her response – and the response of Oklahoma’s attorney general – after the approval of the first-ever religious charter school. Holly mentioned this piece by Sarah Mervosh for The New York Times: Oklahoma Approves First Religious Charter School in the U.S. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 24: The myth of American ‘chosenness’ (part two)
Jun 2 2023
S4, Ep. 24: The myth of American ‘chosenness’ (part two)
What does the myth of American “chosenness” mean for different communities and the rise of Christian nationalism? Episcopal Bishop and Cherokee nation member Carol Gallagher, Baptist minister Rev. Darrell Hamilton, and Dr. Michael Hober­man, a scholar of early American Jewish literature and culture, engage in a conversation moderated by the Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley, a minister and professor of gender studies and ethnic studies. Dr. Catherine Brekus of Harvard Divinity School joins them, too, as they react to her lecture about how the myth of “chosenness” leads to much of the religious nationalism in our country today, including how scriptures were used to justify colonialism. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:40): Context for this panel Hear Dr. Catherine Brekus’ presentation in episode 23, or watch it online. Meet our panelists: The Rt. Rev. Carol Gallagher, Ph.D. serves as the assistant bishop in the Episcopal Church’s Diocese of Massachusetts. An enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation, Bishop Gallagher previously served the diocese as a regional canon. Before that, starting in 2014, she served as assistant bishop in the Diocese of Montana, developing relationships with Native leaders and congregations there; educating and training clergy and lay leaders on issues of race, gender and inclusion; and leading the Task Force on Native Issues. Dr. Michael Hober­man teach­es Amer­i­can lit­er­a­ture at Fitch­burg State Uni­ver­si­ty. He is a grad­u­ate of Reed Col­lege and earned his Ph.D. from the Uni­ver­si­ty of Mass­a­chu­setts Amherst. His pre­vi­ous books include A Hundred Acres of America: The Geography of Jewish American Literary History and New Israel/New England: Jews and Puritans in Early America. The Rev. Darrell Hamilton is an ordained Baptist minister and graduate from Wake Forest School of Divinity, where he earned his Master of Divinity in 2017. He earned his degree in Political Science from the University of Central Oklahoma in 2012. Currently, the Rev. Hamilton serves at the First Baptist Church in Jamaica Plain as Administrative Pastor and as Protestant Chaplain at Babson College. The Rev. Hamilton was a BJC intern in spring 2016. The Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley (moderator) is an Assistant Professor of Gender Studies and Ethnic Studies at the University of Utah. During the 2022-2023 academic year, she is the Research Fellow at Old North Illuminated in Boston. Old North Illuminated is the secular 501(c)(3) that preserves the Old North Church and interprets its history. Her research, teaching, and writing consider the themes of historical memory, race, religion, gender, and abolition. Jaimie is an ordained minister whose ordination is recognized by the American Baptist Churches USA. The Rev. Dr. Crumley is a member of the BJC Board of Directors and of the 2016 class of BJC Fellows. This presentation was the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, an annual lecture series sponsored by BJC. It took place at Old North Church in Boston.    Segment 2 (starting at 1:39): The panel conversation You can also watch the panel at this link. During the conversation, Dr. Crumley mentioned this piece by Dr. Brekus on American “chosenness.” Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 23: The myth of American ‘chosenness’
Jun 1 2023
S4, Ep. 23: The myth of American ‘chosenness’
How does the myth of America being a “chosen” nation lead to the religious nationalism we see today? Harvard Divinity School’s Dr. Catherine Brekus talks about how the myth is a complicated mixture of arrogance, exploitation, reform, racism and violence. She looks at the roots of this myth, how it has played out through our country’s history, and the ways that the recent surge of white Christian nationalism reflects a deep uneasiness about the loss of Christian privilege in this country.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): Meet Dr. Catherine Brekus Dr. Catherine Brekus is Charles Warren Professor of the History of Religion in America at Harvard Divinity School, Chair of the Committee on the Study of Religion in the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, and an associate member of the Program in American Studies and the Department of History. Her research focuses on the relationship between religion and American culture, with particular emphasis on the history of women, gender, Christianity, and the evangelical movement. Currently, she is writing a book about the relationship between American nationalism and Christianity and co-authoring a biography of Sarah Edwards (1710-1758) with Harry Stout and Ken Minkema. Read more about her on Harvard Divinity School’s website.  This presentation was the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, an annual lecture series sponsored by BJC. Dr. Brekus gave this presentation at Old North Church in Boston.    Segment 2 (starting at 2:30): The myth of American ‘chosenness’  You can watch the presentation online at this link. Dr. Brekus’ presentation was followed by a panel discussion that included Dr. Brekus; The Rt. Rev. Carol Gallagher, PhD; the Rev. Darrell Hamilton; and Dr. Michael Hober­man. It was moderated by the Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley. Our next episode will bring you their conversation. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 22: Inside the ReAwaken America tour
May 18 2023
S4, Ep. 22: Inside the ReAwaken America tour
Christian nationalism is on full display at stops of the ReAwaken America tour – conferences that fuse Christian language and symbols with conspiracy theories and election denials. Amanda went inside the most recent one at a Trump property in Miami, and she shares her experiences in this podcast – from assembly-line baptisms to the reaction of the crowd as speakers moved seamlessly from religious worship songs to calls for political violence.    SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:48): The Christian nationalism of the ReAwaken America tour Amanda and Holly discussed the ReAwaken America tour in episode 5 of season 4: Christian nationalism and the midterm elections Amanda and Holly mention this article about the ReAwaken Tour in The New York Times by Michelle Goldberg: Whose Version of Christian Nationalism Will Win in 2024? Amanda wrote a response to Michael Flynn’s call for “one religion” in 2021, published by Baptist News Global: If you’re paying attention to Christian nationalism, you won’t be shocked by Michael Flynn’s call for ‘one religion under God’   Segment 2 (starting at 05:29): The Pastors for Trump event Amanda and Holly mentioned this article on the Pastors for Trump group by Peter Stone for The Guardian: Pro-Trump pastors rebuked for ‘overt embrace of white Christian nationalism’ During this segment, we played a clip of Pastor John Bennett speaking during the Pastors for Trump event in Miami.   Segment 3 (starting at 15:34): ReAwaken America, baptisms, and our counter-witness Amanda and Holly mentioned Brian Kaylor’s reporting on the ReAwaken America tour. You can see his twitter thread with clips from Miami and read his latest piece in the A Public Witness newsletter, which is part of the Word&Way network: Michael Flynn’s Soup for the Soulless For more about Baptism and different ways Christian denominations approach it, check out this story from 2001 by the PBS program Religion and Ethics Newsweekly. BJC and Faithful America created electronic billboards that were on trucks and a boat in Miami. See the video of the billboards in this post on the @EndChristianNationailsm Instagram account. Visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org to explore the resources provided by the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, including a statement anyone who identifies as a Christian can sign. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 21: 613 Commandments: James Talarico on his defense of church-state separation as a Christian
May 11 2023
S4, Ep. 21: 613 Commandments: James Talarico on his defense of church-state separation as a Christian
The Texas legislature meets once every two years, and they are spending a great deal of this session on bills that would advance religion. We return to our conversation on the Ten Commandments bill in Texas, as we saw a groundswell of opposition to the bill when it headed to the state House. Amanda and Holly take a look at some viral moments, and we share an exclusive conversation with Texas state Rep. James Talarico, who spoke in opposition to this bill as a lawmaker, a former schoolteacher, and a Christian.  SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Why are we still talking about this? Last week’s program on the Ten Commandments bill in Texas (Senate Bill 1515) is episode 20 of season 4. You can listen to it on our website. We played the viral video of state Rep. James Talarico questioning the author of the bill. You can watch it on Twitter. An advocate in Waco put together this petition opposing SB 1515, available for Texans who oppose the bill as people of faith to sign.   Segment 2 (starting at 12:39): A conversation with Texas state Rep. James Talarico You can see video clips of the interview with Amanda and Texas state Rep. James Talarico in a Twitter thread she posted. It is also available on YouTube and on a reel posted by the @endchristiannationalism Instagram account.   Segment 3 (starting at 27:32): Putting this discussion into focus For additional resources on the various ways religions interpret and list the commandments, a chart from New World Encyclopedia shows how different traditions order them. You can see a list of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) here. Visit this website for a side-by-side comparison of the Ten Commandments as listed in Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20. We played a clip of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioning Paul Clement in 2005 during oral arguments in the Van Orden v. Perry case. You can listen to the full argument here, and the clip we played is from 51:24 in the audio recording of the argument. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 20: The Ten Commandments
May 4 2023
S4, Ep. 20: The Ten Commandments
Texas is taking matters into its own hands, going full-on cowboy as it leads the nation in abandoning long-held religious liberty protections. Amanda and Holly review a troubling bill in Texas that would mandate the posting of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms, and they share how some are trying to use the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision – and removal of the Lemon test – to justify this effort. They also review some surprising moments during a Texas Senate hearing on the bill, including when Baptists discover they have different understandings of their own theology. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly review the religious freedom problem with legislation like this and share ideas for engaging in conversation that can help reframe the issue.   SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:41): Dueling over the Ten Commandments Amanda and Holly discuss last year’s Supreme Court decision in Kennedy v. Bremerton on episode 21 of season 3.  Amanda and Holly talk about the Lemon test, from the 1971 decision in Lemon v. Kurtzman. They also mention the 1980 Stone v. Graham decision. The proposal in Texas is Senate Bill 1515, and the text is available online. Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Britt Luby for Baptist News Global: ‘Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife’ and other posters I do not want in a first grade classroom. Read Amanda’s Tweet about this proposal in Texas.   Segment 2 (starting at 13:28): The Texas Senate hearing on this bill  You can listen to the Texas state Senate hearing on Senate Bill 1515 at this link. We played a clip of Tara Beulah, which appears at 27:13 in that video.  Former BJC Executive Director Brent Walker wrote this piece in 2005 debunking some of David Barton’s claims.  You can find resources on Christian nationalism on the website of our Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign.   Segment 3 (starting at 30:01): Engaging in conversation about the Ten Commandments In 2005, the two Supreme Court cases dealing with the posting of the Ten Commandments in government settings were McCreary County v. ACLU and Van Orden v. Perry. Read Holly’s preview column, which included ways to engage in conversation about the issue, on page 6 of this magazine: Supreme Court’s review of Ten Commandments cases an opportunity for education on religious liberty After the cases concluded in 2005, Holly wrote this column: Making sense of the Ten Commandments cases For more resources from BJC on religious displays, visit BJConline.org/religious-displays. The Respecting Religion podcast was honored with two DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards from the Religion Communicators Council: Best in category for an individual episode, recognizing our episode on the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision, and an award of merit for season 4 of the podcast. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 19: Searching for common ground: SCOTUS hears Groff v. DeJoy
Apr 20 2023
S4, Ep. 19: Searching for common ground: SCOTUS hears Groff v. DeJoy
The Supreme Court seemed less divided by ideological lines during the Groff v. DeJoy oral arguments, as justices searched for common ground to clarify a standard from a 1977 decision that no advocate seems to be fully supporting. Amanda and Holly share their thoughts from the day, playing key moments from the courtroom in their breakdown of the legal issues and sticking points in the case. What, exactly, constitutes “undue hardship” when looking at the practical realities of the modern workplace and the strain that one worker’s need – religious or not – can cause on others?    Segment 1: Statutory stare decisis (starting at 00:47) Learn more about Groff v. DeJoy on our website: BJConline.org/Groff, which includes a link to the brief BJC joined and Holly’s preview column. Listen to our preview of the case in episode 17: Is ‘de minimis’ enough? Holly mentioned this story from Nina Totenberg on NPR: Who bears the burden, and how much, when religious employees refuse Sabbath work? Visit the Supreme Court’s website to listen to oral arguments in Groff v. DeJoy and read a transcript.  At the Supreme Court, Aaron Streett argued on behalf of the petitioner, Gerald Groff, and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar argued on behalf of the United States Postal Service.  We played one clip from the oral arguments during this segment: Justice Elena Kagan and Aaron Streett (this exchange takes place at 12:29 in the oral arguments)   Segment 2: A Court looking for common ground to clarify the law  (starting at 14:14) We played five clips from the oral arguments in this segment: Justice Neil Gorsuch and Elizabeth Prelogar (this exchange takes place at 57:58 in the oral arguments)Justice Elena Kagan and Aaron Street (from 31:26 in the arguments)Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Aaron Street (from at 34:26 in the arguments)Aaron Street responding to Justice Amy Coney Barrett (from 40:29 in the arguments)Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Elizabeth Prelogar (from 1:35:11 in the arguments)   Segment 3: How will the Court fix this problem?  (starting at 25:43) Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 18: Understanding Christian nationalism: New polling and media
Apr 13 2023
S4, Ep. 18: Understanding Christian nationalism: New polling and media
Media reports about Christian nationalism are often tied to topline takeaways from research on the political ideology. Amanda and Holly review various definitions of the term “Christian nationalism,” look at its connection to – and distinctiveness from – the Christian faith, and talk about why sociological research on this topic matters. SHOW NOTES: Segment 1: Definitions of Christian nationalism (starting at 00:48) The Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign defines Christian nationalism in the statement of principles. Dr. Andrew Whitehead and Dr. Samuel Perry defined Christian nationalism in their 2020 book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States. You can also see their definition on a 1-page handout available on the Christians Against Christian Nationalism website.   Dr. Jemar Tisby shared his definition in a recent Substack post: A Virtual Roundtable on the Threat of Christian Nationalism, Part 2 of 4 Dr. Anthea Butler defined white Christian nationalism in her contribution to Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection. Her section is on pages 4-6. Russell Moore defined Christian nationalism in this piece for Christianity Today: Christian Nationalism Cannot Save the World Dr. Paul Miller defined Christian nationalism in this piece for Christianity Today: What is Christian nationalism?    Segment 2: What’s “Christian” about Christian nationalism? (starting at 16:08) Amanda and Holly discussed this piece from The New Yorker by Kelefa Sanneh: Under God: How Christian is Christian nationalism?     Segment 3: Why do polling results matter? (starting at 24:12) The PRRI/Brookings survey discussed is called A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 17: Is ‘de minimis’ enough? Previewing Groff v. DeJoy
Apr 6 2023
S4, Ep. 17: Is ‘de minimis’ enough? Previewing Groff v. DeJoy
A spring Supreme Court case is bringing together some unlikely allies. Amanda and Holly preview Groff v. DeJoy, which examines the federal statutory protection against religious discrimination in the workplace. They review the facts of the case, which involves a postal worker who has a religious belief he cannot work on the Sabbath, and they share why a “de minimis standard” set in a 1977 case is way too low. Not all impacts on coworkers are “undue hardships,” and Amanda and Holly share why we need a standard that works for everyone.    SHOW NOTES Segment 1: The facts of this case (starting at 00:37) Visit BJConline.org/Groff for a full list of resources on Groff v. DeJoy.  Holly wrote an article for our spring magazine on the case: The Supreme Court’s latest religion case offers opportunity to restore statute’s meaning   Segment 2: Considering a better standard (starting at 14:55) BJC joined an amicus brief in this case, led by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Other organizations joining the brief are the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, National Association of Evangelicals, Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, and ADL (Anti-Defamation League). Segment 3: What do we expect in oral argument? (starting at 25:06) The Supreme Court will hear this case April 18, and we’ll have an episode dedicated to the oral argument. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 16: Biden, Trump and federal regulations
Mar 16 2023
S4, Ep. 16: Biden, Trump and federal regulations
Schoolhouse Rock left out a key way laws are made: The regulatory process. Amanda and Holly discuss the federal regulatory and rulemaking process and review some recent proposals and final rules from the Biden administration, including a proposed rule from nine different agencies and a final rule from the Department of Labor. They also review how these rules have changed through the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations, and they talk about the importance of balancing everyone’s rights when using government money to serve people in need.    SHOW NOTES: Segment 1: How does this process work? (starting at 00:51) Amanda mentioned this article by Annie Lowrey for The Atlantic: The Time Tax Holly and Amanda mentioned the BJC Advocacy Team, a group of people who get email alerts about opportunities to reach out to government officials to make themselves heard. You can join up by signing up for BJC’s email list and checking the box to join the BJC Advocacy Team.  The Federal Register – which contains notices and proposed rules – is available online.  Segment 2: Three areas of proposed regulations where BJC filed comments (starting at 10:12) As mentioned, The White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives under the Bush administration was sometimes abbreviated “WHOFBCI,” which some pronounced as “Whoof-book-ee.” For more on regulations proposed by the Trump administration, listen to episode 4 of season 1 of the podcast: On the Regs: Faith-based regulations from the Trump administration For some additional history of the White House’s faith-based office, read this 2015 article by Holly Hollman: BJC weighs in on proposed faith-based regulations, affirms progress Learn about the new proposed regulations from the Biden administration in this post on our website: Biden administration proposes new rules reinstating important religious liberty protections for beneficiaries of federal funds   Segment 3: A finalized regulation on federal contractors (starting at 29:58) Amanda read the statement from Holly that BJC released February 28 reacting to the final rules from the Department of Labor.  For more information on this topic, visit the website of the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs from the Department of Labor. It includes additional details and resources on Executive Order 11246, which bars discrimination in federal contracting. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 15: Eric Adams, CPAC and Christian nationalism
Mar 9 2023
S4, Ep. 15: Eric Adams, CPAC and Christian nationalism
From New York City Mayor Eric Adams to several individuals at CPAC, we’ve recently heard new, troubling comments from public leaders that show – once again – the prominence of Christian nationalism and the dangers it poses to public debate. Amanda and Holly provide some “Separation of Church and State 101” in this episode to clear up confusion about the term and what it really means. They also share examples of people working together across ideological divides to combat Christian nationalism.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1: Troubling comments from New York City Mayor Eric Adams (starting at 00:51) We played two clips from this speech Mayor Eric Adams gave at an interfaith breakfast. The first clip begins at 51:31 in the video, and the second begins at 44:36. Read the full response from Rachel Laser, CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, at this link. Read Amanda’s Tweet in response to Mayor Adams here. It also appeared in this column from Jennifer Rubin for The Washington Post: Eric Adams wades into church-state quicksand. Watch Mayor Adams on CNN’s State of the Union with Dana Bash at this link.   Segment 2: Concerns from CPAC (starting at 12:56) See video of Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s remarks at CPAC in this Tweet from Religion News Service reporter Jack Jenkins. Amanda and Holly mentioned this photo essay from The New York Times on CPAC, with words by Jane Coaston and photos by Damon Winter.  Amanda quoted this Tweet from conservative commentator Bill Kristol on the remarks from Michael Knowles at CPAC. Amanda denounced Michael Knowles’ call for the elimination of transgenderism in this Tweet.   Segment 3: We don’t have to agree on everything to work together (starting at 24:59) Amanda mentioned attending the Principles First Summit. Learn more at this link. Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign and check out resources on the campaign’s website.  Amanda and Holly mentioned this book by Dr. Paul Miller: The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 14: Public schools and Christian nationalism
Mar 2 2023
S4, Ep. 14: Public schools and Christian nationalism
From curriculum debates to the posting of “In God We Trust,” we’re seeing the political ideology of Christian nationalism impacting religious freedom in our public schools.  During Public Schools Week, Amanda and Holly review recent controversies and discuss the important role our nation’s public schools play in serving all people and educating 90% of American schoolchildren. They also discuss why some schools would rather teach a misleading version of history and shut down any conversation by calling on the “boogeyman” of Critical Race Theory.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1: A proliferation of bills pushing Christian nationalism in public schools (starting at 00:49) Learn more about Public Schools Week on this website. We played a clip of Amanda’s testimony before Congress in December 2022 during a hearing titled “The Evolution of Anti-Democratic Extremist Groups and the Ongoing Threat to Democracy,” led by the House Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Watch her full testimony at this link. Amanda and Holly mentioned this “super-thread” on Twitter from Bryan Kelley, a policy analyst,  of bills being introduced in state legislatures which have a component that combines religion and public education. Segment 2: What’s the role of religion in public schools?  (starting at 14:45) Visit BJC’s collection of resources on religion in the public schools at this link.  Amanda and Holly mentioned an article by the Rev. Jennifer Hawks, BJC’s associate general counsel, that was published in Good Faith Media: Strong public schools fight Christian nationalism   Segment 3: Other opportunities to support public schools (starting at 23:25) Watch the webinar on advancing religious freedom in public schools, featuring Maggie Siddiqi, Director of the Center for Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the U.S. Department of Education, and the Rev. Dr. Brian Kaylor, President and Editor-in-Chief of Word&Way.  Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 13: White supremacy and Christian nationalism: A conversation with the Rev. Dr. Jay Augustine
Feb 23 2023
S4, Ep. 13: White supremacy and Christian nationalism: A conversation with the Rev. Dr. Jay Augustine
How can we best understand the overlap of white supremacy and Christian nationalism? The Rev. Dr. Jonathan C. “Jay” Augustine joins Amanda and Holly for a wide-ranging conversation during Black History Month as we explore the way Christian nationalism devalues Blackness in our country. A pastor, preacher, lawyer and author, Dr. Augustine shares the differences between racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination we see throughout American history as well as the polarization and “otherism” we see today. He also reviews the various methods of reconciliation and what we all can learn from the Black Church as we seek to envision a just society and embrace a fuller understanding of religious freedom, including its ability to liberate. SHOW NOTES Segment 1: How to have a religious freedom conversation that respects all (starting at 00:43) Learn more about the work of the Rev. Dr. Jonathan C. “Jay” Augustine by visiting his website. Dr. Augustine delivered BJC’s 2022 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. You can watch all three presentations on our YouTube channel: And Who Is My Neighbor?Religious Liberty & Christian Nationalism: A Political History & Problematic PresentMaking America Great Again?: Christian Nationalism & Attempts to Undermine Democracy Dr. Augustine’s new book is titled When Prophets Preach: Leadership and the Politics of the Pulpit (Fortress Press, 2023). It will be released March 28, and you can pre-order it from Amazon or from Fortress Press.   Segment 2: Christian nationalism’s white-centric idea of belonging (starting at 12:47) Amanda mentioned the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and the line in it that says the ideology “overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation.” Read the entire statement online at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org Holly mentioned Dr. Augustine’s previous book, which is Called to Reconciliation: How the Church Can Model Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion (Baker Academic, 2022). It is available wherever books are sold, including Amazon.    Segment 3: What can everyone learn from the Black Church? (starting at 30:07) Amanda mentioned remarks by Dr. Jemar Tisby during an event at The Brookings Institution. BJC Tweeted out a clip of his remarks, available here. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 12: Accusations of religious bias on campus and in Congress
Feb 9 2023
S4, Ep. 12: Accusations of religious bias on campus and in Congress
Accusations of antisemitism and Islamophobia tend to spark and exacerbate divisions in our world. Amanda and Holly discuss two recent controversies that featured accusations of religious bias: The removal of Rep. Ilhan Omar from a congressional committee and a depiction of the Prophet Muhammad shown in an art history class. They look at the under-discussed parts of these controversies, implications for the future, and how we balance the right to religious belief and expression with respect for others’ beliefs.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:55): A vote to remove Rep. Ilhan Omar from a congressional committee Holly and Amanda discussed this article by Karoun Demirjian in The New York Times: House Ousts Ilhan Omar From Foreign Affairs Panel as G.O.P. Exacts Revenge Amanda read a statement from former Rep. John Yarmuth via Twitter.   Segment 2 (starting at 11:39): A professor, ancient art and campus controversy Amanda and Holly discussed this in-depth article by Vimal Patel in The New York Times on the controversy at Hamline University: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job. For more on blasphemy laws and BJC’s work against them: BJC and others speak out against blasphemy laws, covering a congressional briefing in 2018 U.S. House Supports International Religious Freedom Resolution by the Rev. Jennifer Hawks, associate general counsel at BJC Article 18 of the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights Read the lawsuit filed by professor Erika López Prater, Ph.D., at this link. Holly and Amanda mentioned this article by Yonat Shimron in Religion News Service: Hamline University retracts ‘Islamophobia’ charge as instructor sues   Segment 3 (starting at 31:12): What have we learned from these controversies?  Holly mentioned a program called “Protecting Academic Freedom, Empowering Muslim Students After the Hamline Controversy,” led by Rutgers Law Professor Sahar Aziz for the Rutgers Center for Security, Race, and Rights. It is available to watch on YouTube. Amanda mentioned this open letter from Muslims for Progressive Values. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 11: The National Prayer Breakfast and religious freedom
Jan 26 2023
S4, Ep. 11: The National Prayer Breakfast and religious freedom
On February 2, we’ll see the 71st installment of an event that always raises eyebrows and makes news. The National Prayer Breakfast has been around since 1953, but what is it? Does it promote religious freedom, or is it yet another example of Christian nationalism? Amanda and Holly explore the legitimate questions it raises about faith in public life and the relationship between the institutions of government and religion. They also share their thoughts on what we should do about the National Prayer Breakfast and the key differences between it and the National Day of Prayer.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): Exploring the National Prayer Breakfast from various angles  You can email Amanda and Holly at RespectingReligion@BJConline.org Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift supports the podcast! Listen to Amanda and Holly’s conversation on the National Prayer Breakfast during the very first episode of Respecting Religion in February 2020 at this link. Their discussion of the event begins at 28:44 into the episode. Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed in The Washington Post by Arthur Brooks, who was the keynote speaker at the 2020 National Prayer Breakfast: Trump and I disagreed at the National Prayer Breakfast. But we listened to each other Throughout its history, the National Prayer Breakfast has been hosted by The Fellowship Foundation, also known as “The Family.” You can visit their website at this link.  As mentioned, this year a newly-created nonprofit will be the official host of the National Prayer Breakfast. “The Family” will host a large event at the same time that includes a livestream. Read more in this Religion News Service article by Adelle Banks and Jack Jenkins: National Prayer Breakfast breaks from ‘The Family’ with new organization Amanda and Holly mentioned this 2022 article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Sen. Chris Coons: This year’s National Prayer Breakfast is a ‘reset’   Segment 2 (starting at 25:21): History, controversies, and the proper relationship between religion and government Amanda and Holly discussed the Johnson Amendment in season 2, episode 4: Grading the Trump administration on religious freedom (starting around 09:50 in that episode). You can also read more about BJC’s work defending the protections of the Johnson Amendment  Journalist Jeff Sharlet wrote a book titled “The Family” in 2009 about the Fellowship Foundation, including the National Prayer Breakfast. In August 2019, Netflix released a 5-episode series called “The Family.” You can read John Fea’s review of the Netflix series that ran in The Washington Post.    Segment 3 (starting at 32:12): What’s the difference between the National Prayer Breakfast and the National Day of Prayer? Amanda quoted Brent Walker and quoted Holly from this BJC press release in 2011 about the National Day of Prayer.  Amanda tweeted about attending the White House’s naturalization ceremony, held on Religious Freedom Day. See her tweets about attending here, including a clip from Second Gentleman Douglas Emhoff’s speech.  Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
S4, Ep. 10: A report, a prayer vigil, and a somber anniversary: Two years after January 6
Jan 12 2023
S4, Ep. 10: A report, a prayer vigil, and a somber anniversary: Two years after January 6
Last week, our country marked the second anniversary of the January 6 insurrection. On today’s podcast, Amanda and Holly share their reactions to the report released by the January 6 Select Committee at the end of 2022, including the lack of any mention of Christian nationalism and why that matters. Amanda and Holly also discuss the importance of Christian leaders providing an alternative witness to the Christian nationalism exhibited during the attack on the Capitol. And, they review how the insurrection still shapes our world and how it – surprisingly – doesn’t shape Capitol tours.   SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): The January 6 Report Read the final report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol at this link. We played a clip compiling three individuals’ statements during the January 6 hearings claiming the Constitution was divinely inspired: Greg Jacob, Rusty Bowers, and Rep. Liz Cheney. You can see Amanda’s Tweet of the video here. You can read the comprehensive BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link. Click here to read the letter organized by BJC and Christians from Christian Nationalism to the January 6 Select Committee, asking them to investigate how Christian nationalism motivated and intensified the attack. You can watch Amanda’s testimony before a House subcommittee in December at this link. Amanda and Holly discuss it in more detail in episode 9. Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Vera Bergengruen for TIME Magazine: Why a Group of Christians Is Fighting the Growing Threat of Christian Nationalism Additional media coverage on the absence of Christian nationalism from the final report: Despite ample evidence, Christian nationalism mostly absent from final Jan. 6 report by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service Christian nationalism conspicuously absent from January 6 report, featuring an interview with Amanda Tyler and MSNBC’s Alicia Menendez on the Alex Wagner Tonight program   Segment 2 (starting at 20:17): Contrasting images on the 2nd anniversary of January 6 You can see BJC’s photos of the prayer vigil in this Facebook album. There are also photos from Getty Images, AP, and Reuters from the vigil.  You can follow the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign on Instagram and TikTok at the handle @EndChristianNationalism. Watch this short compilation of the two events on January 6, 20203, on the @EndChristianNationalism TikTok.    Segment 3 (starting at 28:45): Scrubbing the insurrection from Capitol tours Amanda and Holly discussed this story from The Washington Post by Joe Heim: Official U.S. Capitol tour guides told to only mention Jan. 6 if asked Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!
S4, Ep. 09: Addressing Christian nationalism before Congress
Dec 15 2022
S4, Ep. 09: Addressing Christian nationalism before Congress
Why hasn’t Congress addressed the dangers of Christian nationalism before now? Amanda and Holly talk about a crucial hearing this week, which included testimony from Amanda on how Christian nationalism overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation. They look at the challenges facing Congress in addressing the rise in violence in our country, and they share some bipartisan unity from this week’s hearing. Plus, Amanda and Holly take a moment to thank our listeners as we wrap our final show of 2022. SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): Why is congressional testimony important? You can read the joint BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link. Jack Jenkins and Emily McFarlan Miller wrote this article for Religion News Service about the expert statement from Christian leaders to the January 6 Committee: Major Christian leaders asked Jan. 6 committee to investigate Christian nationalism Read the full text of the letter sent to the January 6 Committee at this link. Amanda testified during a hearing titled “The Evolution of Anti-Democratic Extremist Groups and the Ongoing Threat to Democracy.” It was the 7th – and final – hearing in the “Confronting White Supremacy” series of hearings led by the House Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Click here to read more about the hearing and the list of expert witnesses.  Segment 2 (starting at 13:38): Amanda’s testimony: Christian nationalism is not Christianity Read Amanda’s submitted written testimony at this link. Watch Amanda’s in-person testimony at this link. Watch a video of the entire subcommittee hearing at this link.   Segment 3 (starting at 30:33):Who are our podcast listeners? Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!
S4, Ep. 08: Hypotheticals, reeducation, and a preemptive claim: SCOTUS hears 303 Creative v. Elenis
Dec 8 2022
S4, Ep. 08: Hypotheticals, reeducation, and a preemptive claim: SCOTUS hears 303 Creative v. Elenis
Amanda and Holly review this week’s Supreme Court arguments in 303 Creative v. Elenis, a free speech challenge to a Colorado law that prohibits discrimination in the commercial marketplace. They look at how this case came to be, how it relates to 2018’s Masterpiece Cakeshop case, and the difficulty in deciding weighty matters of free speech and nondiscrimination for a wedding website design business that has not started that aspect of its business. Amanda and Holly play clips from the courtroom and share why, based on the questions and the tone, they think 303 Creative will win this case. But, the big question is how the company might win and how this case may affect debates about religious freedom and nondiscrimination laws. SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:53 ): From Masterpiece Cakeshop to 303 Creative Amanda and Holly previewed 303 Creative v. Elenis in episode 2 of season 4.  Learn more about the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case and read BJC’s brief at BJConline.org/Masterpiece   Segment 2 (starting at 10:44): Key takeaways from 2+ hours of oral arguments We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court’s website at this link: Justice Elena Kagan (starting at 2:04:54 into the oral arguments)Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:46:12 into the oral arguments)Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 01:56:00 into the oral arguments) Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed by David Cole for The New York Times: The Supreme Court Is About to Ask the Wrong Question About the First Amendment   Segment 3 (starting at 26:20): A reeducation on some surprising questions  Visit BJC’s Facebook page to see a video of Amanda outside the Supreme Court before the oral arguments began on Monday. We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court’s website at this link: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:21:54 into the oral arguments)Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 02:07:46 into the oral arguments)Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 02:14:57 into the oral arguments) Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.