PODCAST

In the Shadows of Utopia: The Khmer Rouge and the Cambodian Nightmare

Lachlan Peters

A comprehensive narrative history of Cambodia, focusing on the Khmer Rouge and the Pol Pot regime, utilising extensive research and interviews with historians.
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S1 Ep1: An Introduction to the Khmer Rouge, the Killing Fields and the 'Cambodian Genocide'
S1 Ep1: An Introduction to the Khmer Rouge, the Killing Fields and the 'Cambodian Genocide'
Jan 28 2018
52 mins
S1 Ep1: An Introduction to the Khmer Rouge, the Killing Fields and the 'Cambodian Genocide'
S1 Ep1: An Introduction to the Khmer Rouge, the Killing Fields and the 'Cambodian Genocide'
How would you react to being forced out of your home at gunpoint,  ordered to leave all of your belongings behind, and instructed to walk for days, weeks and months, to an unknown fate in the countryside? And that is just the beginning of the nightmare. ​ The first episode of the series is intended to be a very basic introduction to the the complex set of circumstances that Cambodia faced midway through the 1970s. ​The conquest of Cambodia by the Communist Party of Kampuchea, known to the world as the Khmer Rouge, would usher in one of the most destructive and murderous regimes of the 20th century. This limited series is an attempt to provide a detailed narrative history of Cambodia, with a focus on explaining the rise of the Khmer Rouge and the reasons why their utopian visions ended with more than one quarter of the population dying in just under four years. More than two million Cambodians, as well as various ethnic minorities, will perish at the hands of their own government. Explaining this story requires time, research and explanation of historical forces in Cambodia as well as the wider world. Not just dates, numbers and names. Join Lachlan Peters, a long-time student of Cambodian history as he shares the story of one of the most fascinating countries in the world, and the long path toward its darkest period.   Sources Pin Yathay Stay Alive My Son David Chandler A History of Cambodia and Voices From S-21 Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare Roland Neveu The Fall of Phnom Penh Elizabeth Becker When the War Was Over
Jan 28 2018
52 mins
S1 Ep2: The Rise and Fall of the Khmer Empire - Part One
S1 Ep2: The Rise and Fall of the Khmer Empire - Part One
How did the Khmer civilisation begin? How were they able to prosper to the point of building the megacity of Angkor? Time period covered: 2000 BC – 900 AD In this episode, Lachlan seeks to explain the early processes that developed amongst the Khmer civilisation in and around the region that would eventually become Cambodia. This involves an explanation of the different cultural influences from India and China that would see a kind of hybridised people come to prominence on the Indochinese mainland. The story of early Funan and Chenla, as well as the development of the ‘Devaraja cult’; a system where a universal monarch is regarded as a kind of incarnation of a deity is discussed as well as the establishment of the early cities which will become the seat of the vast Khmer Empire. The ingenious methods of water management that will support the kinds of society and architecture the civilisation is famous for is also explained. The episode ends at the reign of Yasovarman and the construction of Phnom Bakheng and the vast baray, in the era just before the ‘peak’ of the civilisation. Sources David Chandler A History of Cambodia Extra Media https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/show-content.html
Apr 19 2018
45 mins
S1 Ep3: The Rise and Fall of the Khmer Empire - Part Two
S1 Ep3: The Rise and Fall of the Khmer Empire - Part Two
How did the largest city in the pre-industrial world function? What was Khmer society like during the ‘golden age’ of Angkor? How did this civilisation falter and fade? Time period covered: 1100 - 1431 Lachlan begins this episode with a discussion of one of the most impressive and famous examples of Khmer architecture; Angkor Wat. The details of this building, and what it meant for the civilisation that could build it, is explained. We also learn about the life and times of Jayavarman VII, widely recognised as the ‘greatest’ of the Devaraja who lead the Khmer to conquer the greatest extent of territory and build some of its most iconic temples. Zhou Daguan, a Chinese diplomat who visited the region, is discussed as he gives a rare insight into the lives and culture of the Khmer at Angkor somewhere near it's peak. But changes would soon follow. But rather than using words like 'collapse', 'decline' or 'fall' to describe this period of Khmer civilisation, it may be more accurate to term this process as the 'transformation' of a society. The reasons for this transformation, ranging from climate change to religion are discussed. Sources David Chandler A History of Cambodia Zhou Daguan The Customs of Cambodia BBC, ‘Jungle Atlantis: Angkor Wat’s Hidden Megacity’ 2014 Virtual Angkor Project https://www.virtualangkor.com Extra Media https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/show-content.html Jungle Atlantis on Vimeo https://vimeo.com/123320994
Jul 18 2018
57 mins
S1: Bonus Episode: 'Visualising Angkor' with Tom Chandler
S1: Bonus Episode: 'Visualising Angkor' with Tom Chandler
Tom Chandler is a senior lecturer at Monash University. His research has focused upon the design and development of immersive simulations of the past, particularly the medieval Cambodian capital of Angkor. In what is the first interview of the series Lachlan speaks with Tom about how immersive virtual recreations can transform our imagination of the 'skeletal remains' of Angkor. The uses of this research for historians as well as the resources that Tom and his team at the Virtual Angkor Project are discussed, as well as his thoughts on technology and archaeology. Visit https://www.virtualangkor.com/ for more information about the project Tom is building.
Jul 29 2018
52 mins
S1 Ep4: Cambodia After Angkor - Part One
S1 Ep4: Cambodia After Angkor - Part One
How did the Khmer go from a civilisation which dominated most of mainland Southeast Asia, to a reduced vassal state of either the Siamese or the Vietnamese? Why did the capital move from Angkor? Why are the Vietnamese the ‘hereditary enemy’ of the Khmer? Time period covered: 1431 - 1800 The next part of the series is hugely important for establishing the context of Cambodia in the 20th century, and therefore the factors leading to the Khmer Rouge revolution. The transition of Angkor to Phnom Penh, as well as the relationship that develops between the Khmer and their neighbours in Siam and Vietnam are important aspects of Cambodian history in its ‘dark ages’ or ‘middle period’. In this episode, Lachlan introduces a brief history of Vietnam, as this eastern neighbour will play a vital role in the story of the region in the 20th century and is necessary for a Cambodian History podcast focusing on the Khmer Rouge. Sources David Chandler A History of Cambodia Christopher Goscha Vietnam: A New History Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Feb 26 2019
56 mins
S1 Ep5: Cambodia After Angkor - Part Two
S1 Ep5: Cambodia After Angkor - Part Two
How will the forces of Imperialism and Colonialism come to the region of Indochina? What role will Europeans play in shaping what will eventually become the state of Cambodia? Time period covered: 1500 - 1825 Cambodia’s transitionary period will also see the start of European influence in the region. What did these early encounters look like? The ridiculous story of Ruiz and Veloso, two ‘adventurers’ from Spain and Portugal who attempt to take over the country is relayed. Lachlan also spends some time introducing what the larger forces of colonialism looked like around the globe at this time. The attention then shifts to France as we look to foreshadow the coming imposition of control from Europe that will culminate in ‘French Indochina’ being eventually established. The story of Pierre De Behaine, a French missionary stationed in Vietnam, is told as we look to set up the long and tangential relationship between Vietnam and France. The period of conflict within Vietnam and the eventual unification of that kingdom by Emperor Gia Long – with help from the aforementioned missionary – is also related to Cambodian history, particularly the infamous Cambodian folktale of ‘the master’s tea’; a story about Vietnamese cruelty to the Khmer that can still be heard today. Sources Briggs, L.P. ‘Spanish Intervention in Cambodia’, T'oung Pao, Second Series, Vol. 39, 1950 David Chandler A History of Cambodia Alex Hinton Why Did They Kill?  Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
May 5 2019
1 hr 19 mins
S1: Bonus Episode: 'The Cambodian Genocide?' With Professor David Chandler
S1: Bonus Episode: 'The Cambodian Genocide?' With Professor David Chandler
Professor David Chandler is perhaps the most widely recognised and respected scholar of Cambodian history. Author of books such as A History of Cambodia, Brother Number One, Voices from S-21 and The Tragedy of Cambodian History, David has also testified as an expert witness on two occasions during the trial of former leaders of the Khmer Rouge.  I had the privilege to sit down with Professor Chandler in his home in Melbourne to discuss ideas about the current state of Khmer Rouge historiography, his thoughts on the Khmer Rouge Tribunal, whether the crimes of the CPK can be considered 'genocide', and his experience visiting the country so soon after it 're-opened' in 1981.  David was until recently a Professor Emeritus at Monash University, where I first met him in 2011. Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Jun 30 2019
56 mins
S1 Ep6: The Dawn of French Indochina
S1 Ep6: The Dawn of French Indochina
What happened in the years leading up the French colonisation of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam? How did Cambodian rulers become so dependent on either Siam or Vietnam for protection?   Time period covered: 1789 - 1887 In this episode, Lachlan bridges the gap between Cambodia’s ‘middle period’ and the dawn of French colonisation of Indochina. Beginning with the French revolution and its links with the eventual Khmer Rouge revolution, we then explore the imposition of Vietnamese control on Cambodia in the 19th century, as well as the story of a French naturalist who visited the region. The episode ends with the different ways in which the French conquered Cambodia and Vietnam. The story of Cambodia’s ‘years of calamity’ and the influence of this period on the psyche of a country dominated by the ascendant Siam and Vietnam is explored. We even have an introduction to the early years of Saloth Sar, otherwise known as Pol Pot. Sources David Chandler A History of Cambodia Henri Mouhot Travels in Siam, Cambodia and Laos Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Aug 31 2019
2 hrs 1 min
S1 Ep7: The French Protectorate, Rural Life and the Rise of Cambodian Nationalism
S1 Ep7: The French Protectorate, Rural Life and the Rise of Cambodian Nationalism
What did French control of Cambodia look like? How did this ‘Protectorate’ function? What are the origins of Cambodian nationalism? What was life like for your average Khmer in the early 20th century? Time Period Covered 1880 – 1938 This episode centres around Cambodian history as the French instigate the colonisation of Indochina. We learn about the early reactions to French rule, as well as the treatment of the Khmer by the imperial power and how the 'protectorate' functioned. The murder of the French 'resident' Felix Louis Bardez  in a rural hamlet also prompts a discussion of the culture of the Khmer living in the areas outside of the major towns and cities based on May Ebihara's groundbreaking work. This episode continues detailing the early life of Saloth Sar, and his family, as well as introducing Son Ngoc Thanh, and the first Khmer language newspaper 'Nagaravatta'. Episode Content Map Google Maps Image Sources David Chandler A History of Cambodia Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare May Ebihara Svay: A Khmer Village in Cambodia
Dec 2 2019
2 hrs 2 mins
S1 Ep8: The Origins of Communism - Part One - Marx and Engels
S1 Ep8: The Origins of Communism - Part One - Marx and Engels
Who are the proletariat? Who wrote the Communist Manifesto? What was the context in which it was written? Time Period Covered 1842 – 1900 This episode is intended to function as an introduction to the ideas of Marx and Engels, and more broadly to 'communism'. We begin with some common phrases used by the Communist Party of Kampuchea and their cadre that highlight the ideology of the movement. We then depart Southeast Asia for Europe in the midst of the Industrial Revolution, and look at the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels as they form a new view of history based on economics and class, and they forecast revolution. Sources Friedrich Engels The Conditions of the Working Class in England Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels The Communist Manifesto Henri Locard ​Pol Pot's Little Red Book: The Sayings of Angkar Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Jan 19 2020
1 hr 22 mins
S1 Ep9: The Origins of Communism - Part Two - Soviet
S1 Ep9: The Origins of Communism - Part Two - Soviet
How do you build a society out of the theories of Marx and Engels? Who was Lenin and why is he such an important communist figure? How did communism come to Indochina? Time Period Covered: 1917 - 1939 Beginning with Lenin being sent into the fragile Russian Empire in 1917, this episode is a discussion of the evolution of Marxism from 'theory' to 'practise'. This creates a new version of the 'doctrine': 'Marxism-Leninism'. The Russian Revolution in 1917 represents the entrance of a new civilisation onto the globe, one fuelled by the energy of communism. A young Vietnamese man sees this ideology as a potential way for his country to be freed from colonialism, as do many others. The reign of Lenin gives way to Stalin, and terror, as we expand our vocabulary of 'communism' in order to better understand the actions of the Khmer Rouge. Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Apr 1 2020
2 hrs
S1 Ep10: Cambodia in the Second World War: Son Ngoc Thanh, Japan and a Brief Independence
S1 Ep10: Cambodia in the Second World War: Son Ngoc Thanh, Japan and a Brief Independence
What is the Umbrella Revolt in Cambodia? How do nationalists like Son Ngoc Thanh react to the rise of Imperial Japan? What are the circumstances surrounding the choice of Norodom Sihanouk as the new Cambodian king in 1941 - as a 19 year old? Time Period Covered: 1939 - 1945 This episode is an in-depth discussion of the events in Cambodia and Vietnam that occurred once the French presence in Indochina was diminished by Imperial Japan during WWII. Cambodia will briefly become independent amongst the chaos of 1945, but the road to this change will involve a host of different events. Cambodian nationalism becomes a genuine force within the country, and Prince Norodom Sihanouk will become king in 1941. Monks will protest, some will join revolutionary movements. The young men and women who will eventually form the core of the Khmer Rouge will witness rapid change as the world transforms radically in just six years. The rise of the Viet Minh and the declaration of an independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam - as well as the famous speech that Ho Chi Minh makes to mark this occasion - concludes this episode. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History and A History of Cambodia Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power and Viet Nam Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Ho Chi Minh Declaration of Independence Christopher Goscha Vietnam: A New History Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Jun 11 2020
2 hrs 45 mins
S1 Ep11: Pol Pot in Paris and the Khmer Issarak - Part One
S1 Ep11: Pol Pot in Paris and the Khmer Issarak - Part One
What does the anti-colonial scene look like in Cambodia? Who are the Khmer Issarak and how do nationalists and young Cambodian students relate to this movement as well as the growing war in Vietnam with the returning French? Time Period Covered 1945 - 1950 Saloth Sar, the young Pol Pot, will arrive in Paris in October 1949. In this episode we trace the path that he takes to get there, as well as the very important developments in Cambodian and world history that are taking place at this time. Resistance to French colonialism takes the shape of the 'Khmer Issarak' in Cambodia, a banner which includes many different groups and figures - some open to communist ideology and some staunch nationalists. Leaders such as Dap Chhuon, Prince Chantaraingsey, Puth Chhay and Son Ngoc Minh are discussed, as well as the circumstances around the beginning of the First Indochina War. Meanwhile, Saloth Sar is introduced to communist ideology in Paris, and a group of students including Ieng Sary, Thioun Mumm, Keng Vannsak and more will organise themselves along Marxist inspired politics. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam A New History Ben Kiernan Viet Nam Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Aug 22 2020
2 hrs 5 mins
S1: Bonus Episode: ‘Extraordinary Justice at the Khmer Rouge Tribunals’ with Dr Craig Etcheson
S1: Bonus Episode: ‘Extraordinary Justice at the Khmer Rouge Tribunals’ with Dr Craig Etcheson
Craig Etcheson is currently visiting scientist at Harvard’s TH Chan School of Public Health, and he was a founder of the Documentation Centre of Cambodia, he has been studying the Khmer Rouge regime for more than thirty years. He worked as an investigator of the prosecution at the ECCC between 2006-2012, and testified at the tribunal as an expert witness. He recently published a book titled "Extraordinary Justice: Law, Politics, and the Khmer Rouge Tribunals" and in this conversation we get into some of the complexities involved in this ‘experiment’ as he puts it, including the shortcomings of the tribunal, government interference, as well as the status of the cases still being heard.
Sep 20 2020
51 mins
S1 Ep12: Pol Pot in Paris and the Khmer Issarak – Part Two
S1 Ep12: Pol Pot in Paris and the Khmer Issarak – Part Two
How did the First Indochina War become part of the Cold War? When did the Khmer students studying in Paris become communists? What influenced Saloth Sar to become a revolutionary? Time Period Covered 1947-1953 This episode explains the way that the first ‘Vietnam War’ began developing into something recognisably part of the Cold War. We also trace the path of the young Pol Pot as his studies in Paris become influenced by a rising influence of communism. Cambodian politics and the return of Son Ngoc Thanh will produce a change in the rule of King Sihanouk, and the early developments of what will be the Khmer Rouge’s ideology begin taking shape. The Viet Minh dissolve the 'Indochinese Communist Party' into discrete parties based on national lines, and the Khmer People's Revolutionary Party is formed - the organisation that will eventually become the Communist Party of Kampuchea and the Khmer Rouge. Sources ​Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Ben Kiernan ​How Pol Pot Came to Power Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Nov 9 2020
2 hrs 35 mins
S1 Ep13: Sihanouk’s Royal Crusade for Cambodian Independence
S1 Ep13: Sihanouk’s Royal Crusade for Cambodian Independence
How does Cambodian Independence day originate in November 1953? What does the First Indochina War look like in Cambodia? How does a young Pol Pot 'join the maquis'? Time Period Covered January – December 1953 This episode explains the actions of King Sihanouk that one French General declared were ‘that of a madman, but a madman of genius’. Almost out of the blue the Cambodian king will claim independence for his country and end almost a century of French colonial rule. Meanwhile, the First Indochina War will bring its ruin to the Cambodian countryside and Saloth Sar will join the communist struggle against the French in the jungles. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam A New History Ben Kiernan Viet Nam Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html
Jan 16 2021
1 hr 37 mins
S1 Ep14: The End of French Indochina: Dien Bien Phu, Geneva and “Citizen Sihanouk”
S1 Ep14: The End of French Indochina: Dien Bien Phu, Geneva and “Citizen Sihanouk”
How does the First Indochina War end? What do the Geneva Accords mean for Cambodia? Who wins the 1955 Cambodian general election? Time Period Covered December 1953 – July 1955 Cambodia faces Viet Minh assaults around the country as the First Indochina War comes to its climax, but the French will suffer their most stunning defeat at Dien Bien Phu. World powers will convene to find a solution to the conflict. The resulting ‘peace’ will marginalise the Cambodian communist movement at the expense of the Vietnamese one, and Sihanouk will create a new political movement.   Google Maps View of Dien Bien Phu Support the show Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam: A New History
Apr 17 2021
2 hrs 37 mins
S1: Season One Recap - Cambodian History from Angkor to Independence
S1: Season One Recap - Cambodian History from Angkor to Independence
This bonus episode is for those who would like to remind themselves of the topics covered in the first season of the podcast, or for new listeners who might want a simple overview of Cambodian history as it relates to the rise and fall of the Khmer Rouge. This is an introduction to the themes of the series as a whole, the aims of the podcast, the Khmer Empire, the conditions relating to Cambodia's modernity and the French colonial period. The growth of nationalism, the events of the Second World War and efforts toward independence, including the early stages of a Cambodian communist movement are also revisited. Support Interview
Jun 5 2021
1 hr 6 mins
S2 Ep15: Les Khmers Rouges: Double Lives in Sihanouk's Golden Era
S2 Ep15: Les Khmers Rouges: Double Lives in Sihanouk's Golden Era
How does the Communist Party of Kampuchea form? How does Saloth Sar become a married man and teacher? What are the consequences of Sihanouk’s neutral foreign policy? Time Period Covered 1955-1960 As peace broke out over Cambodia in the wake of the First Indochina War, the fledgling communist movement had to learn to survive in a newly independent country under the rule of Prince Norodom Sihanouk. Numbers dwindling and unable to openly resist the government, the ‘revolutionary organisation’, as they began calling themselves, found an avenue for recruits in the schools of Phnom Penh. The man who would become Pol Pot became a teacher. Meanwhile, in an attempt to navigate a neutral path for Cambodia in the Cold War era, Sihanouk opens relations with China as well as the United States. This agenda will have consequences, as the CIA begins trying to undermine his government and even seek his removal. The resulting “Bangkok Plot”, a series of conspiracies against him, will be explained. The Khmer Rouge, as Sihanouk had begun calling the communists in his country, will also meet to discuss a new kind of organisation - the Communist Party of Kampuchea. Saloth Sar, Nuon Chea and Ieng Sary will all find themselves in high-ranking positions as the seeds of their revolution are sewn. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History, Brother Number One Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Elizabeth Becker When the War was Over Norodom Sihanouk My War with the CIA Peter Froberg Idling Song for an Approaching Storm Craig Etcheson Overview of Hierarchy of Democratic Kampuchea Show Content https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.html
Jul 23 2021
2 hrs 7 mins
S2 Ep16: Maoism, the Great Leap Forward / Famine and the Sino-Soviet Split
S2 Ep16: Maoism, the Great Leap Forward / Famine and the Sino-Soviet Split
Why was one of the most prominent slogans of the Khmer Rouge about a "super great leap forward"? What is Maoism and why did the People's Republic of China provide a new ideological source for the world? Why did the USSR and the PRC split in the 1960s? Time Period Covered 1949 - 1962 This episode could be considered the third instalment in the history of communist ideology of the series. Lachlan discusses the Chinese Civil War, the People's Republic of China, Mao, Maoism, the circumstances surrounding the Great Leap Forward and it's terrible consequences. This is a brief explanation of the 45 million deaths that occurred in China as a result of government policy. The Chinese communists will provide the Khmer Rouge not only with material and economic aid once they come to power, but also with an ideological framework - a program - that the Cambodians will seek to recapitulate. This is an explanation of that program, as well as another hugely important factor in the coming chaos in Indochina, the ideological schism between the USSR and the PRC known as the Sino-Soviet Split. Sources Philip Short Mao Julia Lovell Maoism: A Global History Richard Baum The Fall and Rise of China Frank Dikotter Mao's Great Famine
Dec 5 2021
2 hrs 43 mins