In today's Deep Dive Jim and Freddy discuss what they learned from the past two interviews. Matt Lewis on The Sinking of the Sudar Havid and Geoffrey Cain on China's Surveillance State.

In their discussion of these episodes, Jim and Freddy weave through such important topics as the horrors of being on a tiny life boat in a massive storm, and if you'd rather be trapped underwater and eaten alive by sharks, or die waking up in a collapsed sink-hole in the middle of the night. (The answer is sink-hole, by the way, because sharks are scary as shit.)

Then they go deep into discussing more aspects of the big-tech dystopian Black Mirror-type nightmare currently operating in Xinjiang, China, and different theories about why the world allows it to continue. (Hint, its money.)

And to wrap it all up, Jim and Freddy get into an argument about the way controversial topics should be discussed, and if it is really important for saving the world to definitively figure out if Bill Gates has ever eaten a baby or not.

So sit back, and enjoy this free-wheeling discussion between two independent thinkers, and then tune back in next week for a new interview with an actual smart person.

Note: Deep dive episodes will soon be recorded LIVE with you, the listener, having the ability to call in to the show in real time and voice your own independent thoughts.

It's free and easy to participate in the show, and be notified of the upcoming recording times, just download the "Callin" app (www.callin.com) on your phone and follow The Independent Riot.