People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

Zachary Elwood

This is a podcast about deciphering human behavior and understanding why people do the things they do. I, Zach Elwood, talk with people from a wide range of fields about how they make sense of human behavior and psychology. I've talked to jury consultants, interrogation professionals, behavior researchers, sports analysts, professional poker players, to name a few. There are more than 135 episodes, many of them excellent (although I may be biased). To learn more, go to PeopleWhoReadPeople.com.

Reviews:

"Consistent interesting and smart and humane and insightful."  - Scott Stossel, National Editor of The Atlantic

"Intriguing topics weaved into a tapestry of insight into the human condition."  - from an Apple Podcasts review

"Probably the best podcast I've come across... Very intelligent."  - from an Apple Podcasts review

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Our Editor's Take

People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast is a show about the human mind. The host of the show is Zach Elwood. He used to be a professional poker player and wrote a book about how to win by reading the players. He is also the author of Defusing American Anger, which examines "us-versus-them thinking."

Examining human behavior through a psychological lens can have dozens of uses. For Elwood, it started as a way of winning at poker. Reading "tells" is a subtle but lucrative skill. It's predicated on the idea that human behavior is sometimes predictable. This idea has applications in criminal justice, politics, scamming, and many other situations. In every podcast episode, Elwood chats with experts from many different fields. He aims to understand how the human mind and its actions play out in varying situations.

In a podcast interview with Yakov Hirsch, Elwood considers "Hasbara culture." This phenomenon combines a victim mindset and the belief that any criticism of Israeli policy is antisemitic. Hirsch also advocates for empathy toward ideological opponents.

In less serious episodes, John Hoefling describes "tells" in team sports. Hoefling is a sports analyst who reveals how some players give away their intentions. One football player's foot position at the beginning of a play indicates whether he will run or pass. In tennis, Andre Agassi liked to brag that he had a tell on Boris Becker. He thought Becker would flick his tongue before his legendary serve.

Elwood also talks to sales professionals who explain why door-to-door sales work. The people who work those jobs use specific strategies to win business. Another episode is about scams and why people succumb to them. Elwood examines the reasons people believe in conspiracy theories. The host also brings in guests who explain how lie detectors work (and whether they work at all). He warns people away from junk science in behavioral psychology as well.

People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast is a great choice for amateur psychologists. It might also appeal to listeners who seek to understand other's thoughts and their own.

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Society & CultureSociety & Culture
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To reduce polarization, is it optimal to work on systemic change or cultural change?, with David Foster
Apr 5 2024
To reduce polarization, is it optimal to work on systemic change or cultural change?, with David Foster
A talk with David Foster, who writes about polarization and media at knowthesystem.org and is the author of "Moderates of the World Unite!: Reworking the Political Media Complex." Topics discussed include: the optimal approach for reducing toxic political polarization (cultural change vs systemic changes); defining the word 'moderate' and examining some of the negative connotations it has; the difficulty of making changes in a polarized, high-animosity environment; why some conservatives dislike the idea of making systemic changes; the ideas in David's book for improving the media environment and political discourse.------------------------------------------------------Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.

Episodes

To reduce polarization, is it optimal to work on systemic change or cultural change?, with David Foster
Apr 5 2024
To reduce polarization, is it optimal to work on systemic change or cultural change?, with David Foster
A talk with David Foster, who writes about polarization and media at knowthesystem.org and is the author of "Moderates of the World Unite!: Reworking the Political Media Complex." Topics discussed include: the optimal approach for reducing toxic political polarization (cultural change vs systemic changes); defining the word 'moderate' and examining some of the negative connotations it has; the difficulty of making changes in a polarized, high-animosity environment; why some conservatives dislike the idea of making systemic changes; the ideas in David's book for improving the media environment and political discourse.------------------------------------------------------Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Do simplistic ideas of power (e.g., oppressed/oppressor framings) reduce empathy? with Elizaveta Friesem
Mar 26 2024
Do simplistic ideas of power (e.g., oppressed/oppressor framings) reduce empathy? with Elizaveta Friesem
Elizaveta Friesem writes about media and about social power (i.e., the power people exert over other people).  I first interviewed her about media and polarization in 2021 about her book "Media Is Us." Topics we discuss here include: Michel Foucault’s ideas about power (often referenced in liberal academic world); the oppressed/oppressor framework (also often referenced); how simplistic views of social power can be divisive and result in a reduction in people's empathy; how the free will debate ties into these ideas; political polarization related to some of these ideas. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
What's life like when you don't believe in free will?, with physicist Daniel Whiteson
Mar 12 2024
What's life like when you don't believe in free will?, with physicist Daniel Whiteson
A talk with Daniel Whiteson, a professor of physics and astronomy, about free will, with a focus on what the effects in one's life are when one doesn't believe in free will. Topics discussed: Our thoughts on why we think free will is unlikely to exist; psychological and emotional aspects of living without a belief in free will; the anxiety and even anger that some people can have about the idea that we lack free will; the idea that a lack of belief in free will can be part of a spiritual, positive way of experiencing the world; and more. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
News media tends to deepen our divides. Does Isaac Saul have a solution?
Mar 4 2024
News media tends to deepen our divides. Does Isaac Saul have a solution?
A talk with journalist Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle News (readtangle.com), which shares takes from across the political spectrum. I think Tangle is doing amazing work. I think the more Americans there are who read Tangle, the less toxically polarized we'll be. Topics we discuss include: aspects of Tangle News that make it depolarizing and anger-reducing; how Isaac conceives of the problem of political polarization; his work debunking "the election was stolen" narratives in 2020, and more.Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
The allure of deciphering behavior, with Rounders screenwriter Brian Koppelman
Mar 1 2024
The allure of deciphering behavior, with Rounders screenwriter Brian Koppelman
A talk with screenwriter/producer Brian Koppelman, known for many TV and film projects, including the poker movie Rounders, the show Billions, and the series Super Pumped: The Battle For Uber. Topics discussed: how he decided to create Rounders; poker tells in Rounders; the excitement of reading people and their behaviors; the difficulty of reading behaviors in most real-world situations; and the anxiety-reducing benefits of transcendental meditation. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
How a pro poker player makes use of poker tells, with Dara O'Kearney
Feb 18 2024
How a pro poker player makes use of poker tells, with Dara O'Kearney
A talk with professional poker player Dara O’Kearney about poker tells (aka, physical and verbal behaviors in poker). Dara is the co-host of the popular poker podcast The Chip Race and the author of several books, including GTO Poker Simplified. We talk about: the importance of poker tells compared to strategy; how Dara’s views on tells have changed over time; some ways poker players can get info from opponents (e.g., insulting them or being nice to them); some poker hands where opponent behaviors played a role in a decision. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Tips on interrogating people for information and confessions, with David Zulawski
Feb 5 2024
Tips on interrogating people for information and confessions, with David Zulawski
A reshare of a talk with David Zulawski from 2018. Zulawksi is an expert in interrogation and interview techniques and the cofounder of Wicklander Zulawski and Associates. Topics discussed include: Why is the non-confrontational, rapport-focused technique he recommends the best one? Why is it important to downplay the significance of a crime? Why is it important to try to prevent someone from denying the crime/accusation?  Why is it important to not tell a suspect all the evidence you have against them? What are some behavioral clues a suspect is lying or telling the truth?Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Reading behavior and motivations in the Robbi Jade Lew poker hand, with Yakov Hirsch
Jan 28 2024
Reading behavior and motivations in the Robbi Jade Lew poker hand, with Yakov Hirsch
A talk with professional poker player Yakov Hirsch about the well known high-stakes poker situation where amateur Robbi Jade Lew was accused of cheating by professional player Garrett Adelstein. We give our takes on the hand, and the overall situation, and we talk about Robbi's possible motivations and thought processes during this hand, and about what her behavior might indicate about her thinking.Support the showTo get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Understanding Trump and his voters' animosity towards the media, with Yakov Hirsch
Jan 20 2024
Understanding Trump and his voters' animosity towards the media, with Yakov Hirsch
A talk about trying to understand Trump's anger at the American media and how that relates to American polarization. This is from a talk I had with Yakov Hirsch in late November 2023. Other topics discussed include: Trump-Russia media coverage; Americans' polarized views of Trump; the importance of trying to understand even those people we perceive as dangerous and harmful; American polarization and conflict dynamics in general. This is from a video talk; you can find the video talk on my People Who Read People YouTube channel.Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
The exaggeration of antisemitism, and the importance of understanding the "other side," with Yakov Hirsch
Jan 14 2024
The exaggeration of antisemitism, and the importance of understanding the "other side," with Yakov Hirsch
Another talk with Yakov Hirsch, who writes about the Middle East conflict and about "Hasbara culture": what he sees as the tendency of some Israel-defending people to be overly antagonistic and us-vs-them in their thinking (for example, unfairly framing criticism of Israel as "antisemitic"). If you haven't heard the first talk, I recommend that one. This talk is more generally about the nature of conflict, and about how conflict can make us perceive the world and the people around us in overly pessimistic and antagonistic ways, which in turn leads to more conflict. It's also about the importance of trying to have cognitive empathy for people we disagree with and see the world from their perspective; even for people we may think are harmful and dangerous.  This will be followed by a second talk where Yakov and I talk about American polarization and polarized views of Trump. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Why do some people want to watch the world burn?, with Kevin Arceneaux
Jan 4 2024
Why do some people want to watch the world burn?, with Kevin Arceneaux
A talk with Kevin Arceneaux, whose research found that a surprising number of people (around 40%) either agreed with or did not disagree with statements like “When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn'?” In their paper, they called this a "need for chaos." We talk about what the study entailed, what they found, and what the factors might be that help explain the finding. We also talk about its relation to toxic polarization, and to social media.  (This is a talk from 2021.)Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Reading "tells" in football, baseball, and other sports, with Jon Hoefling
Dec 21 2023
Reading "tells" in football, baseball, and other sports, with Jon Hoefling
A talk with Jon Michael Hoefling, a sports analyst, about reading behavioral tells and indicators in football, baseball, tennis, and other sports. We focus on a 2021 story that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger had a tell: how he positioned his foot before a play was a strong indicator of whether he'd run or pass. We also talk about reading tells and predicting actions in baseball, tennis, and other sports. One story we talk about was Andre Agassi claiming to once have had a very reliable tell on Boris Becker. (This is a reshare of a July 2021 episode.)Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Dealing with debilitating anxiety, with Scott Stossel
Dec 14 2023
Dealing with debilitating anxiety, with Scott Stossel
A talk with Scott Stossel, author of "My Age of Anxiety: Fear, Hope, Dread, and the Search for Peace of Mind." Scott is also national editor of The Atlantic. Scott's book is a history of the condition and treatment of anxiety, and also a personal history in which Scott talks honestly about his struggles with debilitating anxiety. I talk to Scott about what he's learned in his research and personal life about the factors behind anxiety and how we might, as much as we are able to, overcome it. We also talk about some fairly unexamined nuances about anxiety: for example, how the word can contain a multitude of very different experiences. I also talk about my own anxiety, which has been quite severe.Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Electrodermal activity is what lie detectors measure, but what is it?, with Christopher Moyer
Dec 8 2023
Electrodermal activity is what lie detectors measure, but what is it?, with Christopher Moyer
I talk with psychologist Christopher Moyer about electrodermal activity (EDA), also known as galvanic skin response (GSR), which is what lie detectors measure. Topics discussed include: What are spikes in electrodermal activity actually telling us? We talk about its use in lie detectors. We talk about lowerings in skin conductance and what that indicates. We talk about the nature of stress; and how there can be good and bad stress. We talk about poker and gambling, including some gambling-related studies that measured electrodermal activity. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Dogs' and cats' interactions with humans, with Daniel Mills
Nov 29 2023
Dogs' and cats' interactions with humans, with Daniel Mills
Animal behavior researcher Daniel Mills talks about various aspects of the human-pet relationship, with a focus on his research. Topics include: dogs' abilities to read human emotions and how they do that; the effects of pets on our mental health; animals' ability to perceive images on a TV screen; the differences between the human and animal mind; pets' abilities to sense their owners arriving home from far away; how cats communicate relaxation to each other. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
On the art of listening and the challenges of being an introvert, with Joel Berman
Nov 20 2023
On the art of listening and the challenges of being an introvert, with Joel Berman
Joel Berman is a practitioner of Compassionate Listening (compassionatelistening.org). Joel has travelled to the Middle East and talked with Israelis and Palestinians about their experiences and grievances. Topics discussed: Joel's experiences in the Middle East; what the Compassionate Listening methodology entails; the bravery required for conflict resolution work; and both of our experiences being introverts with a lot of social anxiety. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Tricks and strategies in door-to-door sales
Nov 11 2023
Tricks and strategies in door-to-door sales
A talk with two people with door-to-door sales experience. We talk about the tricks and strategies they used to close sales, and the psychological factors in why those strategies work. Topics discussed: verbal and physical sales scripts some companies use, and why they work; the use of ambiguous language in deception; the power of personal anecdotes in gaining rapport; the importance of getting a customer to commit in writing to the deal; how simply spending time together can build rapport and make a sale more likely. This is a reshare of a 2019 episode. Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
How is bias in media related to polarization?, with Vanessa Otero
Oct 29 2023
How is bias in media related to polarization?, with Vanessa Otero
Vanessa Otero is the creator of a popular and well respected media bias chart that ranks the bias of many news outlets, and she's the founder of Ad Fontes Media. Topics discussed include: the process her team uses to determine bias; the difficulties of determining what is "left" and "right" in a polarized and fast-changing political landscape; recognizing that everyone is biased and that the best we can do is try to reduce our bias; the relation between media bias and polarization; perceptions of the word 'misinformation' being liberal-leaning; liberal-leaning journalists' pushback to Trump being elected; and more.  Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Why is criticism of Israel sometimes portrayed as antisemitic?, with Yakov Hirsch
Oct 22 2023
Why is criticism of Israel sometimes portrayed as antisemitic?, with Yakov Hirsch
A talk with Yakov Hirsch, who thinks that some Jewish people have exaggerated ideas about the amount of antisemitism in the world, and overly pessimistic ideas about the nature of antisemitism. This can make some Jewish people see disagreement, criticism, and conflict too often through the lens of antisemitism. Hirsch ties this into the Israel/Palestine conflict, and also relates this to a long-running debate about the "banality of evil" (which relates to, amongst other things, the motivations of Nazis during the Holocaust). We talk about Hirsch's ideas in the context of conflict dynamics and conflict resolution: for example, the tendency in conflict for people to have distorted views of people on the "other side."Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.
Is our desire for certainty our biggest weakness?, with Maria Konnikova
Oct 14 2023
Is our desire for certainty our biggest weakness?, with Maria Konnikova
Maria Konnikova is the best-selling author of the books The Biggest Bluff, The Confidence Game, and Mastermind: How To Think Like Sherlock Holmes. Topics discussed include: the human desire for certainty and story/narrative, and our discomfort with ambiguity and uncertainty; how she decided to get into poker and write The Biggest Bluff; why she finds poker such an interesting game; how one can pursue a career one finds interesting and rewarding.  Support the Show.To get ad-free episodes, and more, get a premium subscription. To learn more about the show, go to behavior-podcast.com. I'm on Twitter at @apokerplayer. See a summary of my work.