Hell & High Water with John Heilemann

The Recount

Living in America these past few years has been like living in a movie—a mashup of Blade Runner, A Clockwork Orange, and Idiocracy, that is. The never-ending pandemic, the routine mass shootings, the climate literally and figuratively on fire; the economy first battered by recession, then ravaged by inflation; an angry electorate, armed to the teeth and addled by conspiracy theories, as our democracy teeters on the brink, with Donald Trump still working overtime to push the whole thing off a cliff. On Hell and High Water, John Heilemann — host of Showtime's The Circus, co-author of Game Change, and national affairs analyst for MSNBC — explores this apocalyptic-seeming moment with seminal figures in politics, entertainment, business, tech, the media, and beyond. The conversations are deep, rich, and bracingly real, but also hopeful, as Heilemann and his guests grapple with the fact that, to quote Bob Dylan, “Everything is broken,” and try to figure out how to fix it … together.

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Our Editor's Take

The Hell & High Water with John Heilemann podcast talks about politics, of course. After all, John Heilemann is one of the country's top political writers and analysts. He cowrote the best-selling Game Change. That book, about the 2008 presidential campaign, got made into an HBO movie. Heilemann also talks politics on Showtime and MSNBC. He helped found The Recount, a political site.

But with the Hell & High Water with John Heilemann podcast, his topic is American culture as a whole. That means talking about much more than elections. Heilemann does talk to fellow DC insiders. New York Times writer Maggie Haberman has guested. Obama advisor David Axelrod has also appeared, as have many other Democratic politicians. So those who like to hear about politics will hear plenty on this show.

But Heilemann also interviews many other eclectic guests. This includes director/producer Allen Hughes, who discussed his Tupak Shakur documentary. Rapper/activist Killer Mike talked to Heilemann about music. So did Steven Van Zandt. Other past guests include actor/musician Jack Black and director Aaron Sorkin. Severance actor Adam Scott discussed switching from comedy to drama.

Heilemann is good at making his guests feel relaxed. He also comes up with compelling questions to make them think. Listeners get to learn more about guests they may already know. Or they may hear about artists they are not familiar with. New Hell & High Water episodes with John Heilemann come out every Tuesday. Sometimes, Heilemann and his guest have so much to talk about that their conversations extend to several episodes.

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Introducing: The Long Game with LZ & Leitch

Introducing: The Long Game with LZ & Leitch

The intersection of sports, culture, and politics is at the heart of the new weekly podcast from The Recount, "The Long Game with LZ & Leitch", premiering Wednesday, November 3rd. Hosted by LZ Granderson, formerly of ESPN, now an op-ed columnist for the L.A. Times and a political contributor to ABC News, and Will Leitch, founder of the late website Deadspin, a contributing editor at New York Magazine and the author of "How Lucky", "The Long Game" dives into the most relevant sports topics of the week to not only break down the games, but the games people play. From vaccination hesitation, to online betting, to all of the wonderful "isms" and "phobias" we've come to know and love, sports not only reflect our culture, they drive our culture. Join Will and LZ as they explore the events on and off the field that collide with the political, business, and social concerns that captivate the American conversation. Listen to new episodes every Wednesday: https://therecount.com/podcasts/the-long-game-with-lz-and-leitch Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cecile Richards

Cecile Richards

In which John Heilemann talks with Cecile Richards, co-chair of the Democratic super PAC American Bridge 21st Century, co-founder of the women’s rights advocacy group Supermajority, and, from 2006 to 2018, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Heilemann and Richards discuss Roe v Wade's uncertain future in the wake of the recent Supreme Court arguments around restrictive abortion laws in Mississippi and Texas, and the effects that Roe's potential demise might have on women and politics in America; how Richards's mother, Ann, the former governor of Texas, propelled her towards a lifetime of activism; and how her broader agenda in favor of "women's equity" is faring in the Biden era. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tom Nichols Part 2

Tom Nichols Part 2

A special two-part episode in which John Heilemann talks with international affairs and national security guru Tom Nichols, contributing writer at The Atlantic, longtime senior faculty member at the U.S. Naval War College, and author of eight books on foreign policy and politics, including, most recently, Our Own Worst Enemy: The Assault from Within on Modern Democracy. Heilemann and Nichols assess the state of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin’s calculations in the face of the Russian military's inability to win a swift and decisive victory, and the emerging consensus in the West that war has reached what could prove to be a protracted and bloody stalemate; how President Zelenskyy has wielded a masterful media strategy to galvanize support around the world and dominate the information battlefield; and the difficult decisions facing Joe Biden and the NATO alliance as Zelenskyy warns that we may already have entered World War III. Nichols also discusses his proud status as a five-time, undefeated Jeopardy champion, and his well-known – and well-deserved – reputation for having indefensibly and inexplicably bad taste in music. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tom Nichols Part 1

Tom Nichols Part 1

A special two-part episode in which John Heilemann talks with international affairs and national security guru Tom Nichols, contributing writer at The Atlantic, longtime senior faculty member at the U.S. Naval War College, and author of eight books on foreign policy and politics, including, most recently, Our Own Worst Enemy: The Assault from Within on Modern Democracy. Heilemann and Nichols assess the state of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin’s calculations in the face of the Russian military's inability to win a swift and decisive victory, and the emerging consensus in the West that war has reached what could prove to be a protracted and bloody stalemate; how President Zelenskyy has wielded a masterful media strategy to galvanize support around the world and dominate the information battlefield; and the difficult decisions facing Joe Biden and the NATO alliance as Zelenskyy warns that we may already have entered World War III. Nichols also discusses his proud status as a five-time, undefeated Jeopardy champion, and his well-known – and well-deserved – reputation for having indefensibly and inexplicably bad taste in music. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Shannon Watts is the founder of Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense in America — a self-described “accidental activist” who, in less than a decade, went from being a stay-at-home mother in Indiana to the face of a national grassroots movement with more active members than the National Rifle Association. When Watts launched her advocacy group as a simple Facebook page in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012, she had just 75 friends on the site but grand ambitions, boundless energy, and infinite chutzpah. Today, Moms Demand Action is part of Everytown For Gun Safety and a political juggernaut, deploying tens of thousands of volunteers and tens of millions of dollars to support candidates, legislative campaigns, and corporate reform efforts. Heilemann and Watts discuss the ways her group has changed the game on gun control, the role of women and young people in the movement, the crisis at the NRA, and why Watts believes the Biden administration will be “the strongest gun safety administration in history.” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kurt Andersen and Lawrence O’Donnell

Kurt Andersen and Lawrence O’Donnell

Kurt Andersen and Lawrence O’Donnell first met 46 years ago as undergraduates at Harvard, forming a friendship that’s flourished alongside their careers as two of their generation’s most incisive, insightful observers of American politics and culture. Andersen made his mark in the 1980s as co-founder of the iconic Spy magazine, then went on to serve as editor-in-chief of New York magazine, host of the Peabody Award-winning radio program “Studio 360,” and best-selling novelist and non-fiction author. O’Donnell cut his teeth in Washington as staff director of the powerful Senate Finance Committee and protege to legendary New York Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then transitioned to the TV business — first as an Emmy Award-winning writer on “The West Wing” and currently as host of “The Last Word” on MSNBC. On this week’s Hell & High Water, Heilemann, a friend of both Andersen and O’Donnell, brings the two men together for their first-ever joint interview. They discuss the performances of Joe Biden and Amanda Gorman on inauguration day, O’Donnell’s insider’s perspective on the January 6 assault on the US Capitol, and Andersen’s “grand unified theory” of modern American life, as sketched out in his recent companion volumes, “Fantasyland” and “Evil Geniuses.” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which John Heilemann talks with Fiona Hill, the former national security official in Donald Trump's White House who made headlines with her testimony in the hearings over the Ukraine scandal that led to his first impeachment. Heilemann and Hill discuss her new memoir, There Is Nothing for You Here: Finding Opportunity in the Twenty-First Century, including her reluctant decision to join the Trump administration, what she learned about his character, and his envious admiration for authoritarian leaders around the world and Vladimir Putin in particular; how Trump’s disregard for the rule of law and democratic norms led not only to his first impeachment but also his attempted coup in the weeks following the 2020 presidential election and culminating with the insurrection at the Capitol on January 6; and why it's no exaggeration to say that Trump is setting the stage for another attempt to subvert American democracy in 2024. Hill also discusses her unlikely journey from a working-class mining town in northeastern England to the rarified academic realm at Harvard, the inner sanctum of the U.S. foreign policy establishment, and upper reaches of political and policy-making power inside the White House. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which John Heilemann talks with documentarian Ken Burns, whose new four-part series, Muhammad Ali, premiered this week on PBS. Heilemann and Burns discuss Ali's life and legacy as the most important athlete of the 20th century, in particular how his story transcends sports, intersecting with the defining issues of his era (race, religion, politics, protest) and illuminating much about the American experience in the convulsive Sixties and Seventies; Burns's prodigious body of work, which has earned him two Academy Award nominations, 15 Emmys, and two Grammys, and has made him the dominant practitioner of his art form over the past 40 years; the landmark films within his oeuvre — multi-part television events such as The Civil War, Baseball, Jazz, and The Vietnam War, some running nearly 20 hours in length — and how Burns found himself imbued with the power to get such sprawling projects made; and the central role that race has occupied in his work, and in the American story. Burns also reflects on his childhood and how it inspired his career, and what it was like to co-direct the Ali series with his oldest daughter Sarah and her husband. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Julia Ioffe and Michael McFaul

Julia Ioffe and Michael McFaul

In which John Heilemann discusses the Russia invasion of Ukraine -- and its far-reaching implications for Europe, Joe Biden's presidency, Vladimir Putin's place in history, and the global security writ large -- with former US ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul and Puck News correspondent Julia Ioffe. Heilemann, McFaul, and Ioffe talk about Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified assault on Ukraine; Putin’s miscalculations regarding the strength of the NATO alliance, internal Russian opposition to the war, and the resolve of the Ukrainian people; and what’s at stake for an already shaky international order. They also marvel at how elements of both the American right and left have improbably become full-fledged Putin apologists ... and even Putin admirers.One of the things that makes it possible for us to make this show is by selling sponsorships to advertisers. And one of the things that would be helpful in getting more sponsors is if you tell us a little bit about who you are. To do that, please fill out this quick survey at https://survey.fan/hhw. Thanks for your help! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Michael Bender, Part 2

Michael Bender, Part 2

In which John Heilemann talks with Mike Bender, senior White House reporter for The Wall Street Journal and author of Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost, for a special two-part episode of the podcast. Heilemann and Bender discuss the latter's new book and its news-making account of Trump's cataclysmic final year in office and doomstruck reelection campaign; how the president mishandled the series of crises that beset the country in 2020, from Covid to the protests after the murder of George Floyd; his contraction of the coronavirus and obsession with Hunter Biden in the campaign's waning days; his actions behind the scenes and motivations in fanning the flames before and during the January 6 attack on the Capitol; the symbiotic relationship between Trump and the national media; Trump's continued post-presidential hold on the Republican Party; and both his and his party's future. Bender also discusses his career in journalism, his daily battle with his father for rights to the sports page of the Cleveland Plain Dealer when he was growing up, and the special challenges of writing about a White House filled with unreliable narrators.Check back tomorrow for the second installment of this special edition of Hell & High Water. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Michael Bender, Part 1

Michael Bender, Part 1

In which John Heilemann talks with Mike Bender, senior White House reporter for The Wall Street Journal and author of Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost, for a special two-part episode of the podcast. Heilemann and Bender discuss the latter's new book and its news-making account of Trump's cataclysmic final year in office and doomstruck reelection campaign; how the president mishandled the series of crises that beset the country in 2020, from Covid to the protests after the murder of George Floyd; his contraction of the coronavirus and obsession with Hunter Biden in the campaign's waning days; his actions behind the scenes and motivations in fanning the flames before and during the January 6 attack on the Capitol; the symbiotic relationship between Trump and the national media; Trump's continued post-presidential hold on the Republican Party; and both his and his party's future. Bender also discusses his career in journalism, his daily battle with his father for rights to the sports page of the Cleveland Plain Dealer when he was growing up, and the special challenges of writing about a White House filled with unreliable narrators.Check back tomorrow for the second installment of this special edition of Hell & High Water. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

John Heilemann talks with two-time Peabody Award-winning comedian Hasan Minhaj, best known for hosting six seasons of the Netflix series Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj and his widely acclaimed Netflix special, Homecoming King. Heilemann and Minhaj discuss his early career as a comic and the centrality of his background as a first-generation Indian- and Muslim-American to his work; his breakout stint as a correspondent for The Daily Show and how it shaped his political and social commentary; his 2017 performance at the White House Correspondents dinner and his return to the capital two years later to testify before Congress on the student loan crisis; and the embrace of Homecoming King as a "calling card for a new brown America." They also discuss The King’s Jester, Minhaj's current one-man show and the subject of his next Netflix special, in which he examines his pursuit of fame and social media clout — and the unexpected risks it ultimately posed both to him and his family. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which John Heilemann talks with Kara Swisher, arguably the preeminent chronicler (and frequent critic) of the companies, personalities, and culture of Silicon Valley and the technology world writ large. Heilemann and Swisher, a protean reporter and pundit whose vast array of endeavors includes hosting the New York Times podcast Sway and serving as a contributing opinion writer at the paper, discuss Spotify’s handling of the Joe Rogan controversy, how the pandemic has shifted the tech landscape, the recent stock plunge that erased more than $200 billion from the market value of Meta, and what to make of two of the most powerful — and maddening — hyper-capitalists of the age: Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They also look back at their parallel paths covering Silicon Valley during the first Internet boom (and bubble, and bust) in the late 1990s; how Swisher's lesbian identity affected her ability to cover the Valley's notorious tech bro culture; and how her restlessness, entrepreneurial itch, and proud status as a self-described "bad employee" sets her apart from the journalistic herd. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stevie Van Zandt, Part 2

Stevie Van Zandt, Part 2

In which John Heilemann talks with Stevie Van Zandt, a founding member of Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, inductee in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, co-star of The Sopranos, and author of a new memoir, Unrequited Infatuations. In this special two-part episode, Heilemann and Van Zandt discuss his early musical influences, the foundations of his best friendship with Springsteen, the extraordinary albums they made together in the 1970s—Born to Run, Darkness on the Edge of Town, The River—and the painful breakup that caused Van Zandt to commit "career suicide" by leaving the band on the brink of its becoming the biggest rock act in the world; his solo career as a musician and political activist, in particular his crucial part in the movement to dismantle the apartheid regime in South Africa; his unlikely emergence as a beloved actor in the role of Silvio Dante opposite James Gandolfini in David Chase's acclaimed HBO mobster series; and his reconciliation with Springsteen and return to the E Street Band two decades after his departure. Van Zandt also explains why he fought The Boss over calling his group The E Street Band — and still considers it a piss-poor name — and Van Zandt's view that the debate over "sways" versus "waves" in the lyrics of "Thunder Road" is no debate at all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stevie Van Zandt, Part 1

Stevie Van Zandt, Part 1

In which John Heilemann talks with Stevie Van Zandt, a founding member of Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, inductee in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, co-star of The Sopranos, and author of a new memoir, Unrequited Infatuations. In this special two-part episode, Heilemann and Van Zandt discuss his early musical influences, the foundations of his best friendship with Springsteen, the extraordinary albums they made together in the 1970s—Born to Run, Darkness on the Edge of Town, The River—and the painful breakup that caused Van Zandt to commit "career suicide" by leaving the band on the brink of its becoming the biggest rock act in the world; his solo career as a musician and political activist, in particular his crucial part in the movement to dismantle the apartheid regime in South Africa; his unlikely emergence as a beloved actor in the role of Silvio Dante opposite James Gandolfini in David Chase's acclaimed HBO mobster series; and his reconciliation with Springsteen and return to the E Street Band two decades after his departure. Van Zandt also explains why he fought The Boss over calling his group The E Street Band — and still considers it a piss-poor name — and Van Zandt's view that the debate over "sways" versus "waves" in the lyrics of "Thunder Road" is no debate at all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When Jack Black and Kyle Gass formed the mock-rock band Tenacious D in 1994, they were just a pair of unknown members of The Actors' Gang in LA with a spiritual and satirical kinship with Spinal Tap, a penchant for R-rated lyrics about their sexual prowess and prodigious cannabis consumption, and surprisingly serious musical chops. Twenty-six years later, Tenacious D has accumulated a large and passionate following, released three platinum albums and a feature film, and won a Grammy Award — and Black, of course, has become a movie star. In this final 2020 episode of Hell & High Water, Heilemann talks with Black and Gass about the group's turn towards the political following Donald Trump's election, from its "South Park"-flavored album/YouTube series/graphic novel "Post-Apocalypto" to its viral, celebrity-studded, get-out-the-vote video cover of "Time Warp" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" (which included Heilemann) ... as well as Black's breakout role in "High Fidelity," his wildly popular quarantine videos on TikTok, and Tenacious D's top five records for celebrating the end of the Trump era. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Over the past three decades, Aaron Sorkin has staked a claim as America’s most renowned film and television writer. With a list of credits that runs from "A Few Good Men," "The American President, "The Social Network," and "Moneyball" on the big screen to "Sports Night," "The Newsroom," and his crowning achievement, "The West Wing," on TV, Sorkin's work has achieved vast popular success, critical acclaim, and cultural resonance. On this week’s episode, Hell & High Water continues its year-end review, with Heilemann and Sorkin discussing how COVID-19, Trump's final year in office, and the racial justice movement affected Hollywood in general and three of Sorkin's projects in particular: his stage version of "To Kill a Mockingbird," the reunion episode of "The West Wing," and his film "The Trial of the Chicago 7." Sorkin also offers his lists of top TV shows and movies of the year — and his favorite political films of all time. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Killer Mike, Part 2

Killer Mike, Part 2

Michael Santiago Render, aka Killer Mike, is one of the most vital figures in the worlds of both hip hop and progressive activism. Best known as one half of the acclaimed rap duo Run The Jewels, Render gained notoriety in the political realm as a prominent backer of Bernie Sanders and a fierce advocate for Black economic empowerment. In the wake of George Floyd’s killing, Render delivered a tearful televised plea to protestors not to torch his beloved home city of Atlanta; the video went viral and earned him a new legion of admirers around the country. A few days later, Run the Jewels released its fourth album, “RTJ4”, which captured the anger, despair, and calls for racial justice echoing from coast to coast and was widely hailed as the dystopian soundtrack of 2020. In this first-ever two-part episode of Hell & High Water, Heilemann and Render discuss race and police violence, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Georgia's outsized role in the 2020 election, Ice Cube, Kanye West, Dave Chappelle, and much, much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Killer Mike, Part 1

Killer Mike, Part 1

Michael Santiago Render, aka Killer Mike, is one of the most vital figures in the worlds of both hip hop and progressive activism. Best known as one half of the acclaimed rap duo Run The Jewels, Render gained notoriety in the political realm as a prominent backer of Bernie Sanders and a fierce advocate for Black economic empowerment. In the wake of George Floyd’s killing, Render delivered a tearful televised plea to protestors not to torch his beloved home city of Atlanta; the video went viral and earned him a new legion of admirers around the country. A few days later, Run the Jewels released its fourth album, “RTJ4”, which captured the anger, despair, and calls for racial justice echoing from coast to coast and was widely hailed as the dystopian soundtrack of 2020. In this first-ever two-part episode of Hell & High Water, Heilemann and Render discuss race and police violence, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Georgia's outsized role in the 2020 election, Ice Cube, Kanye West, Dave Chappelle, and much, much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which John Heilemann talks with actor Adam Scott, best known for his roles in beloved sitcoms including Parks and Recreation and The Good Place. Heilemann and Scott discuss his latest role in Severance, the new Apple TV+ sci-fi series directed by Ben Stiller; why the comedy veteran was eager to take part in the psychological drama; and how the backdrop of Covid-19 and the Trump presidency contributed to the dystopian nature of the show. They also reflect on Scott’s career – from his decade-plus as a struggling actor, his breakout role in Step Brothers, and his penchant for playing wanton assholes to hilarious effect – and look ahead to Scott’s highly anticipated return as Henry Pollard in the forthcoming reboot of the cult comedy classic STARZ series Party Down. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the aftermath of the Democratic Party's successful showing in last week's midterm elections, John Heilemann welcomes Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Jon Meacham, author of the recent presidential biography, And Then There Was Light: Abraham Lincoln and the American Struggle. Heilemann and Meacham, a friend of President Joe Biden, discuss Biden's buoyant mood after the midterms and how he'll determine whether he'll run again in 2024; Meacham's belief that Americans voted to support Democrats over Republicans in key swing states because they dislike having rights taken from them; that the ability of Democrats to put democracy on the ballot was a key determinant in their favor; how Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania's next governor, has become an an ascendant political star; and why presidents and vice presidents never have close relationships. They also talk about Ron DeSantis' recent deeply narcissistic political ad and why his anti-woke message may not play well on the national scene if he tries to be the Republican's presidential nominee in two years; debate Donald Trump's chances of becoming president again; and weigh the potential for election chaos if Republicans don't support the rational rule of law in 2024. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.