Pang Xue Kai first got into trading crypto assets like Bit Coin back in 2015 to make a quick buck. By 2018, though, he was funneling his earnings into starting Tokocrypto — a crypto asset exchange in Indonesia. Since then Tokocrypto opened T-Hub: actual bricks- and- mortar clubhouses in Jakarta and Bali where traders, enthusiasts and maybe skeptics could gather to learn more. More T-Hubs are in the works -- one more for Jakarta and another in Surakarta.

Kai sat down with Vista to talk about what it will take for crypto assets to become a normal thing an investor would buy as part of a balanced portfolio. What rules does the sector still need? Are the big swings in valuation hurting the assets class? Here’s Pang Xue Kai to clarify crypto.