Indonesia is the world’s third-largest producer of coal. Not only does it power the country, it powers the economy. But the country’s president, Joko Widodo, wants to change that. Indonesia is garnering global attention due to its stock of nickel and cobalt, core elements in the batteries needed for the booming electric vehicle industry. Can the government swap the fossil-fuel-powered economy to one that runs on batteries instead?

On this week’s podcast, hosts Soumaya Keynes, Mike Bird and Alice Fulwood ask whether Indonesia can really go green. Zanny Minton Beddoes, The Economist’s editor-in-chief, sits down with Joko Widodo to find out if he is the man to wean the country off coal. Finance minister Sri Mulyani Indrawati and education minister Nadiem Makarim tell us how to train a generation of battery-makers. And Patrick Foulis, our business-affairs editor, warns of a red flag.

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