The United Methodist People Podcast

Rev. Craig Duke is Rev. Dr. Brad Miller's guest on Episode 059 of the United Methodist People Podcast. Craig tells the story of the unique opportunity that came his way to appear on the HBO Television show "We're Here" which features a traveling "Drag Queen" show that recruits and transforms local folk in smaller towns to participate in a "Drag Show." Following a calling, Craig felt, to become a bridge between the church and LGBTQ community and to support his daughter Craig agreed to participate in the show.The fallout following his appearance in the show led to his departure from his church.In this episode, Craig tells the good, the bad, and ugly of his experience and his newfound commitment to new ministry opportunities. For United Methodists following the debate in the church regarding how the church relates (or doesn't) to LGBTQ persons, this is a must listen to hear first-hand the personal heartache, drama, and rejoicing surrounding matters of human sexuality in our church.The Open Door Facebook GroupDreamcatcher Podcast

In Episode 58 of The United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Rev. Rob Fuquay of St. Luke's UMC-Indianapolis about his new book and Lenten resource "The Passion Play-Living the Story of Christ's Last Days" which is inspired by the Oberammergau Passionsspiele.Jesus' Passion Story is presented each Lent in countless churches each year. But one play presented by the inhabitants of the village of Oberammergau, in Bavaria Germany, may be one of the longest-running performances of all. Staged every 10 years since 1634. To play makes an impact not only on the villagers who portray the characters and all who see it as well. And the passion play Rob Fuquay follows the biblical story of the passion and shows how this amazing play as we use both as a ritual of praise and later as a weapon through that's anti-semitic past. Brad and Rob talk about the book at length in this interview including its relevance in today's world of pandemics and anxiousness.The United Methodist People Podcast is produced by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller a retired UMC Elder with a heart for "doing all the good I can; particularly in anxious times." The United Methodist People Podcast is all about sharing the story of the United Methodist people who have similar commitments to doing all the good they can through conversation and commentary. To Purchase "The Passion Play-Living the Story of Christ's Last Days" Go to: https://www.cokesbury.com/the-passion-playIf you like The United Methodist People Podcast then you are invited to try one of the following podcasts Rev. Dr. Brad Miller is involved with.To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble (co-host)https://www.tobeencouraged.com/Voice of God Daily Bible Studyhttps://www.voiceofgoddaily.com/Beyond Adversity: Helping People Navigate Adverse Life Events and Emerge Victoriously.www.DrBradMiller.com

On Episode 57 of the United Methodist People Podcast with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller Bishop Julius C Trimble shares a “Letter to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr” to mark the Dr Martin Luther King, Jr holiday.It was also officially announced that the “To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble” Podcast will launch on Tuesday February 1, 2022.In this episode Bishop Trimble shared his thoughts on the impact and influence Dr. Martin Luther King has society and church today and how words and action should not be frozen in time but apple as earnestly as ever to today’s problems of racism, voter suppression and justice. Bishop Trimble commented on how Dr. King might react to a present state of disparity, why the chasm between the rich and the poor continues? Dr. King brings challenging words to today that life's most persistent and urgent question is, what are you doing for others? That the measure of one’s life is to live a life of service.Bishop Trimble also announced the launching of his own Podcast. As of Tuesday February 1, 2022. This podcast will put voice to Bishop Trimble mission “to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential” - in short, to be encouraged. The podcast will feature Bishop Trimble’s insights and commentary on many issues facing society and the United Methodist Church such as: racism, pandemic, human sexuality, theology, bible study, voting rights, creation care and the future of the Untied Methodist Church. The podcast will publish each Tuesday and is co-hosted by Rev. Dr. Brad MillerTo Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C Trimble is available atwww.ToBeEncouraged.comApple Podcasts:https://tobeencouraged.com/applepodcastsFacebook: https://tobeencouraged.com/facebookSpotify: https://tobeencouraged.com/spotifypodcast

In Episode 56 of The United Methodist People Podcast, with Reverend Dr. Brad Miller, the topic is building the new year of 2022 with Spiritual Infrastructure in the Be Encourage segment, Bishop Julius C. Trimble. Bishop Trimble outlines entering into the new year of 2022 with a vision of partnership to build a beloved community with spiritual infrastructure.  Spiritual infrastructure is composed of such elements as prayer, accountability, and faith.Brad and Bishop discuss Jeremiah 29:11 regarding God’s plans for the church moving into 2022. The discussion revolved around God delivering us for our new season and it's going to be a good season.It was announced that Bishop Trimble will be launching his own podcast in January 2022 “Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble”The trailer is available now at https://be-encouraged.captivate.fm and the podcast will be available on Apple Podcasts and the other podcast directories.Rev. Dr. Brad Miller closed the last podcast episode of 2021 with a word of appreciation to the guests and listeners of the United Methodist People Podcast and a quote from John Wesley.“As for reputation, though it be a glorious instrument of advancing our Master's service, yet there is a better than that: a clean heart, a single eye, and a soul full of God. A fair exchange if, by the loss of reputation, we can purchase the lowest degree of purity of heart.”John WesleyBe Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is found at https://be-encouraged.captivate.fm

In Episode 55 of the United Methodist People Podcast Bishop Julius Trimble shares a Christmas message of How to be Real and Encouraged this Christmas. Bishop Trimble shares the meaningfulness of Christmas memories growing up in his own family and in raising his own children. He also emphasizes the importance of clergy caring for their own families at Christmas and how laypersons can be helpful in this area.He talks about the redeeming message of Christmas in the light of the Covid 19 crisis and other societal pressures. He relates that Christmas is a gift worth sharing - the gift of encouragement.Episode 55 also featured the special announcement that in January 2022 Bishop Trimble is launching his own persona podcast "Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble." This included the release of an audio trailer for the new podcast which will be available on iTunes and other podcast directories after January 1, 2022.Rev. Dr. Miller concluded the episode with gratitude to the listeners for their support in 2021 and the following quote from John Wesley.“Do all the good you can,By all the means you can,In all the ways you can,In all the places you can,At all the times you can,To all the people you can,As long as ever you can.”― John Wesley

In Episode 54 of the United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Indiana Bishop Julus Trimble and Indiana Conference Lay Leader David Johns about simplifying the United Methodist Brand with Love, Grace, and Forgiveness. This is part 2 of a two-part conversation about simplifying the United Methodist Brand. Part 1 of this conversation is on Episode 53 of the United Methodist People Podcast. https://united-methodist-people.captivate.fm/episode/53

In Episode 53 of the United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Indiana Conference Bishop Julius C. Trimble and Indiana Conference Lay Leader David Johns about simplifying the distracted branding of The United Methodist Church.Episode 53 is part 1 of this conversation wh9ich will continue on Episode 54.David Johns is a retired automotive industry executive who brings his expertise in branding and marketing cars to his love of the United Methodist Church and his passion for Jesus Christ.David and Bishop talk to Brad about the multifaceted nature of the United Methodist Brand the assets and liabilities of how the United Methodist Brand is viewed by the public.The conversation turns to the need to simplify the message of the United Methodist brand to focus on "keeping our eye on the ball" of making disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world.This is part 1 of a 2 part conversation which will be resumed on Episode 54 of the United Methodist People Podcast focusing on the sacred worth of all people. “Though we cannot think alike, may we not love alike? May we not be of one heart, though we are not of one opinion? Without all doubt, we may. Herein all the children of God may unite, notwithstanding these smaller differences.”― John Wesley

Episode 52 of the United Methodist People Podcast with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller, features a behind-the-scenes look at the November 2021 Council of Bishops meeting with Indiana area Bishop Julius Trimble. Brad and Bishop talk about the narrative set forth by the Council of Bishops to set the stage moving forward as the church faces probably division in 2022. Bishop and Brad talk about a vision of setting a table for a home where all can be welcome no matter their differences of opinion. Furthermore, Bishop and Brad talk about how music can be a universal language to bring people together. Music at family gatherings around a Thanksgiving table and the songs of Christmas and the holiday season can bridge divides among people.

Living with a grateful heart is the Thanksgiving message of encouragement from Bishop Julius C. Trimble on episode 51 of the United Methodist People Podcast. Bishop Trimble and Rev Dr. Brad Miller talk about scriptures that speak to our hearts at Thanksgiving time particularly Luke 12:48 which indicates to those for whom much have been given much is expected and how that should guide us and how we serve others during this Thanksgiving. Bishop Trimble and Dr. Brad also talked about how in many churches there will be a great emotional uplift that people are gathering for fall dinners and other social events for the first time since the pandemic. Bishop Trimble and Dr. Miller also talked about what people can do to live out their sense of gratefulness and gratitude through various mission opportunities at our churches particularly those which focus on the needs of children. Bishop Trimble and Pastor Miller also announced that in January of 2022 Bishop Trimble will launch his own podcast called "Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble".

Indiana Area Bishop Julius Trimble joins Rev. Dr. Brad Miller on the recurring Be Encouraged segment on the United Methodist People Podcast. In Episode 50 the conversation centers around Leadership in a time of ambiguity in the United Methodist Church. Bishop and Brad talk through the present state of affairs in the United Methodist Church in November of 2021 with the church still many months away from General Conference 2022 when some decisions may be made regarding addressing the conflict in the church over matters of human sexuality. Bishop shares his experiences in The Council of Bishops and how there is a concerted emphasis among the episcopacy to embrace this defining time in our church in a more loving way. A conversation was also had about how local church lay leaders and pastors can approach dramatic decisions around such matters as disaffiliation with a season of prayer and considering the impact such decisions would have on those in our local churches who would be excluded by the decisions made.Be encouraged with Bishop Trimble is a regular segment on The United Methodist People Podcast with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller. In January 2022 Bishop Julius Trimble will be launching his very own podcast "Be Encouraged" with Bishop Julius Trimble emphasizing his call to be a voice of encouragement to the church.The purpose of The United Methodist People Podcast is to strengthen the connection in the United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary and is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller an Elder in the Indiana Annual Conference.https://www.unitedmethodistbishops.org/

On the Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius Trimble segment on Episode 049 of The United Methodist People Podcast with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller, the matter of Cration Care and Climate Justice are discussed in depth.Rev. Dr. Miller and Bishop Trimble go from describing the existential environmental crisis at hand to the theological and biblical foundations for creation care to the pragmatic actions that local churches and individual United Methodist can take to be good stewards of the earth and show care for creation.Special emphasis is given to the importance of listening to and acting with young people who are so invested in the preservation of the planet.One such group is "Climate Justice for All."Episode 049 is an important resource for the church which speaks to perhaps the greatest issue all people face, the threat to our very environment. Climate Justice for Allhttps://worldmethodistcouncil.org/cj4a/

In Episode 48 of The United Methodist People Podcast, Indiana Area Bishop Julius Trimble talks to Rev. Dr. Brad Miller on his ongoing series "Be Encouraged" about his recent article "We Don't Give A Damn About the Poor."Bishop Trimble offers his take on the apathy exhibited in government and much of society toward the plight of poor people borne out by the lack of action toward many measures legislatively and among communities toward services that seek to meet the needs of the poor.Bishop Trimble talks about how personal freedoms do not exclude Christians from the biblical mandate and responsibility to serve the needs of the poor.Moreover, Bishop Trimble gives an encouraging word of the good works that many churches have done in serving the needs of the poor which are tangible examples of what folk can do right now to actually "give a damn for the poor."Bishop Trimble will be a regular guest on The United Methodist People Podcast with his message to "Be Encouraged." https://www.inumc.org/bishop/we-dont-give-a-damn-about-the-poor/

In Episode 47 of “The United Methodist People Podcast,” Rev. Dr. Brad Miller engages in an in-depth conversation with three core leaders of The Room For All Coalition.  The Room For All Coalition was formed in the Indiana Annual Conference in 2019 as a response to decisions made at the 2019 General Conference which (RFA) considered destructive to the church by bringing harm to persons who identify as LGBTQ+ and their allies.Alberto Hidalgo îs a layperson from the Broadway UMC in Indianapolis who became heartbroken when he saw the UMC make a decision that when against his passion regarding inclusivity in the church. He got involved with The Room for All Coalition and is was elected as a Jurisdictional delegate from the Indiana Annual Conference.Rev. Mary Dicken is an ordained Deacon in the Indiana Conference of The United Methodist Church, currently serving at Meridian Street United Methodist Church in Indianapolis and previously serving churches throughout southern Indiana and in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. She is passionate about connecting the church with the hurts and hopes of the world, creating space for sacred questions, and making room for people who have not always felt comfortable or welcome in the church.Rev. Jerry Rairdon is the Lead Pastor of First UMC-Noblesville, Indiana. When the decisions at the 2019 General Conference troubled him to his soul he received a spiritual leading to do something about it. This leads him to become one of the founding members of The Room For All Coalition.All three of these leaders shared their faith stories and how that lead them to become a part of The Room For All Coalition.The conversation Brad had with RFA leaders dealt with an honest assessment of the state of the church including the uneasiness regarding the delay in the General Conference until 2022 and how the stress of not making a decision is problematic.The discussion leads to the listening and learning the RFA has been doing with local churches and church folk which is a part of sharing and interpreting the agenda of RFA to be inclusive of LGBTQ+ folk.The conversation concluded with a discussion by all parties on a vision and hope for the church moving forward.Episode 47 of The United Methodist People Podcast is an important listen for any person wanting to understand the position of groups like the Room For All Coalition.The United Methodist People Podcast has the mission of strengthening the connection in the United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary. it is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller an Elder in the Indiana Annual Conference Mary Dicken mary.dicken@inumc.orgJerry Rairdon jrairdon@noblesvillefirst.comAlberto Hidalgo ahidalgojr@aol.comhttps://www.roomforallin.org/https://www.facebook.com/RoomForAllIN

Seminary Students Rachel Haines and Mackenzie Phillips are Rev. Dr. Brad Miller’s guests on Episode 46 of The United Methodist People Podcast.They spoke to Dr. Brad in-depth about college and seminary life and their perspectives on ministry in a time of the pandemic, social, political, and racial unrest and division in the United Methodist Church.Rachel Haines is a 2018 graduate of Emory and Henry College in Virginiaand a student at Candler School of Theology in Atlanta, Georgia.  Mackenzie Phillips graduated from Hope College in Michigan in 2020 and is a student at Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis. She serves as Associate Pastor of High Street United Methodist Church in Muncie, Indiana.Both women are from Ft Wayne Indiana and both are members of St Joseph’s UMC. They discussed the importance of their home church in their faith formation through youth groups and church camps.Going deeper - the conversation led to how the students were experiencing diverse situations and people in their college and seminary experiences and exploring scriptural studies and developing their own personal ministry philosophy and theological perspective.The students discussed women in ministry and the importance of understanding context and perspective in ministry settings and to really be good listeners.They talked about the challenges of entering ministry during a time of the covid pandemic and the social, political, racial unrest that has pervaded every aspect of life the last year.Moreover, they talked about entering the ministry in the United Methodist Church during a time of division in the church. They saw that this opened up opportunities to apply their gifts and graces to make an impact upon the world through their willingness to serve and face the challenges before them.Indeed, they are choosing to see a lot of hope in the world and in the UMC as serving the church in new ways is now more needed than ever and they are called to look for the good in people and the church and the word.  Episode 46 of The United Methodist People Podcast with Rachel Haines and Mackenzie Phillips is an absolute encouraging word to the church from our emerging leaders who are teaching us to always “do all the good we can.”mackenzie.phillips@inumc.org hainesrachel.rh@gmail.comhttps://hainesrachel.weebly.com/The Mission of The United Methodist People Podcast is to strengthen the connection in the United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary and is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller an Elder in the Indiana Annual Conference. www.unitedmethodistpodcast.com

Episode 45 of The United Methodist People Podcast, with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller, features a conversation with Rev. Dr. Roger about his book “Comeback: Returning to the Life You Were Made For”Roger is the Director of Church Excellence in the Missouri Annual Conference of The United Methodist Church and former pastor and church planter in Illinois. In this conversation, Brad and Ross talk about the factors which lead to the disaster of a fall be it personal or something out of our control like a worldwide pandemic or dissension in the church and respond to the fall in such a way as to find a way to come back better than ever.Brad and Ross discuss five elements crucial to having a comeback and in particular, he advocates five transforming practices which when applied to your life can give you a practical and doing pathway to find your way to come back after a fall.This conversation is a great foundation for using the book and the accompanying workbook to apply to your personal life and to teach in small group settings in the local church.The book “Comeback: Returning to the Life You Were Made For” is available at Cokesbury, Amazon, and is published by Abingdon Press.https://www.cokesbury.com/Come-Back-2?refq=roger%20rossRoger Ross blogs a www.rogerross.online and is available for speaking, coaching, and consulting.The United Methodist People Podcast is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller with the purpose of strengthening the connection in The United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary.

President Javier Viera from Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary and Indiana Area Bishop Julius Trimble are Rev. Dr. Brad Miller's guests on Episode 44 of The United Methodist People Podcast for an in-depth conversation about seminary education in challenging times.President Viera assumed leadership of the Evanston, Illinois campus on January 1, 2021, after serving on the faculty and administration of Drew University School of Theology. A native of San Juan, Puerto Rico, Viera is the first person of color and the first Latino to hold the office of president in the seminary’s 167-year history.President Viero spoke about his personal faith in Jesus Christ and his pathway which lead him to the Presidency at G-ETS prior to diving into a conversation about the challenges and opportunities in theological education in the present context of society and matters impacting the United Methodist Church.President Viero quoted the Spanish poet Machado “making the road as we walk it” as descriptive of the situation facing seminaries. In particular, President Viera said “one of the things that that we are facing as a seminary is the fact that we're training people for a world that we do not yet fully understand, and that we aren't certain of what it will look like.”He talked about theological education is a gift to the church because often the seminary is the place for engaging in dialogue and critical analysis of, of the brokenness of the world and wanting to be a part of, of the healing and the restoration, and resourcing the place of the church to lead in that regard.The conversation led to a discussion of the purpose of graduate theological education itself. He concluded beyond academics in many ways seminary is a graduate school of leadership, and of public service, and of sending people out into the world to serve in those capacities. This is a must listen to any United Methodist leaders invested and interested in the importance and future of seminary education.Folks can learn more about President Javier Viera and Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary at www.garrett.edu.The mission of the United Methodist People Podcast is to strengthen the connection in the United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary and is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller who is an active Elder in the Indiana Annual Conference of the UMC.Rev. Dr. Brad MillerMarch 2021Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary

Two Bishops join Rev Dr. Brad Miller on Episode 043 of The United Methodist People Podcast.  Bishop Julius Trimble of The Indiana Episcopal Area along with Bishop Bishop LaTrelle Easterling of the Baltimore-Washington Episcopal Area engages in an in-depth conversation on matters of peace and justice, racism, the Capitol insurrection of January 6, and the state of the United Methodist Church.Bishop Easterling spoke of her personal experiences in dealing with the impact of the January 6 events in her community.  She talked about how she was taken aback but not surprised by the violence of that day. She talks about how the Baltimore-Washington Annual Conference was prepared to respond to the violence as they had already experienced vandalism and violence at African American UMC’s in Washington DC during the Black Lives Matter gatherings of the summer.  Bishop Easterling spoke a prophetic word about the power and meaningfulness of the word “truth” in such a time as this referring to the story of Moses and Aaron from Exodus 32.Bishop Trimble spoke about the legacy of racism faced by baseball great Hank Aaron as well as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, and the importance of taking the gospel seriously in a time when racism and other social ills have arisen.Both Bishop’s spoke about the state of the United Methodist Church and how they maintain hope that the church will carry thought withy the biblical teaching to love God whole and seek to be whole.This is an important episode worthy of the listener's time and attention.The United Methodist People Podcast is published by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller. The purpose of The United Methodist People Podcast is to strengthen the connection in the Unit4ed Methodist Church through conversation commentary. Rev. Dr. Brad Millerunitedmethodistpodcast.comFebruary 2021Bishop LaTrelle EasterlingBaltimore-Washington Episcopal Areahttps://www.bwcumc.org/about/bishops-office/Bishop Julius TrimbleIndiana Episcopal Areahttps://www.inumc.org/bishop/

Indiana Bishop Julius Trimble and Rev. Susan Henry-Crowe, General Secretary of The United Methodist Board of Church and Society are Rev. Dr. Brad Miller’s guests on Episode 042 of The United Methodist People Podcast.This episode centers around a United Methodist Response to the attempted coup and violent insurrection at the United States Capitol building January 6, 2021.Bishop Trimble wrote an article entitled “A Letter to Martin Luther King, Jr” on the occasion of the MLK Holiday which spoke to the unrest in our country and the response of the United Methodist Church to the violence.Rev. Dr. Susan Henry-Crowe wrote a statement on January 13, 2021 calling on the US Senate to impeach, convict and bar former president Trump from holding public office again.In the discussion attention is given to a Christian and biblical understanding of peace, justice and righteousness. In particular lifting up MLK vision of “a beloved community” and rejecting “distorted Christianity” and “faith misappropriated.”  Episode of 042 of the United Methodist People Podcast is helpful tool for any United Methodist Christian Clergy or Member looking to formulate your own response the disturbing events in the US Capitol on January 6, 2021.January 2021Rev. Dr. Brad MillerThe United Methodist People PodcastUnited Methodist PodcastGeneral Secretary Calls to Bar President Trump from Public OfficeBishop Trimble's Letter to Martin Luther King, Jr

In Episode 041 of The United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Rev. Glenn Knepp about the article A Taxonomy of United Methodist Centrists. which he authored in the online publication United Methodist Insight. https://um-insight.net/perspectives/a-taxonomy-of-united-methodist-centrists_1/. Glenn talks to Brad about his call to ministry his involvement in the church through his local church and the Indiana Annual Conference and his views on the state of the United Methodist Church. In particular Brad and Glenn discuss his article where he takes on the topic of analyzing and breaking down his understanding of centrists in the United Methodist Church. He uses the term taxonomy to describe the categorization of the myriad of approaches many UMCs take who would neither self-describe themselves as traditionalists or progressives in the ongoing dilemma in the UMC but do know they prefer a path which seeks to find more common ground over those who see division in the church. They are the rather large group of people called “Centrists.” This is fascinating discussion on the very nature of our beloved United Methodist Church done in a clever way which wordsmiths the various approaches which is a part of the present dilemma of division in the United Methodist church as we face the probability of schism in the near future. The conversation that Glenn and Brad have in Episode 041 of The United Methodist People Podcast will give food for thought to the listener who loves the United Methodist Church - particularly to those who identify as “Centrist.” November 2020 Rev. Dr. Brad Miller The Article: “A Taxonomy of United Methodist Centrists”

In Episode 040 of The United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller interviews Rev. Todd Outcalt the author of “Let Us Go Now to Bethlehem.”   The book is a daily devotional guide from Advent through Epiphany emphasizing the pilgrimage journey of that all people take through Advent to Christmas to Epiphany following the biblical narrative of the journey of Mary, Joseph and the baby Jesus.   Brad and Todd talk about the book in the light of the challenging journey most people are facing 2020 in a time of pandemic, social and political unrest and stresses in the church.    The conversation is deep and introspective and will be helpful to not only readers of the book but also to people looking for pragmatic ways to navigate challenging pilgrimages in their own life and take heart in the anticipation, inspiration, hope and wonder of the Advent, Christmas, Epiphany story through this engaging conversation.   The purpose of the United Methodist People Podcast is to strengthen the connection in the United Methodist Church through conversation and commentary.    Rev. Dr. Brad Miller October 2020     https://www.cokesbury.com/Let-Us-Go-Now-to-Bethlehem   https://upperroombooks.com/book/let-us-go-now-to-bethlehem/   https://www.amazon.com/Todd-Outcalt/e/B000APJLDW?ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vu00_tkin_p1_i0