Tom and Curtis return from a brief hiatus to discuss some related — but distinct — marketing terms, through the prism of the book “Forget the Funnel.” What are the differences between “lead-gen,” “lead capture” and “demand-gen” (among other activities). When you take a customer-driven approach to marketing, it is important to align your tactics and messaging with the prospect’s position and pathway through the various phases of the traditional sales funnel. Takeaways: Understanding the sales funnel is crucial for marketers.Customer feedback is essential for refining marketing strategies.Demand capture and demand generation serve different purposes.Messaging should align with the customer's journey.Patience is key in marketing; results take time.Real-world examples illustrate the effectiveness of these strategies.Aligning marketing efforts with customer needs is vital.Continuous learning and adaptation are necessary for success. Forget the Funnel: ⁠https://forgetthefunnel.com

With the return of football season nearly upon us, Tom and Curtis are thrilled to welcome Scott Howland, Senior Manager of CRM and Marketing Research at the Detroit Lions, to the show! They discuss how the Lions brand made a shift from customer acquisition to customer retention and loyalty, as well as the importance of understanding a fan base and tailoring the fan experience. Scott shares insights on data-gathering initiatives, including surveys and focus groups, to understand fan profiles and preferences. They also touch on the impact of rebranding and the excitement surrounding the upcoming football season. Takeaways: Shifting from customer acquisition to customer retention and loyalty is crucial for long-term success.Understanding the fan base and tailoring the fan experience is essential for building strong relationships.Data gathering initiatives, such as surveys and focus groups, provide valuable insights into fan profiles and preferences.Rebranding can generate excitement and attract new fans.Giving fans what they want is key to maintaining their loyalty and engagement. Connect with Scott on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/showland3 https://bullhornsbullseyes.com/episode-37/

What is customer segmentation and why is it so critical to a brand’s ability to attract and retain loyal and enthusiastic customers or clients? Tom and Curtis welcome Emily Bielak, Director at market research consulting firm The Martec Group, to explain the basics…then delve into sophisticated approaches to understanding and serving your various customer cohorts. If you’re still thinking of your audience as a monolithic “customer base,” you’re missing out on opportunities that can really drive the bottom line! Takeaways: Companies that focus on brand strategy in addition to lead generation are more successful at Understanding your audience is crucial before starting marketing campaigns.Audience segmentation goes beyond demographics and includes emotions, needs, and behaviors.Measuring the lifetime value of a customer and the impact of referrals is essential for evaluating marketing effectiveness.A blend of qualitative and quantitative research provides a holistic understanding of the audience.Emotions play a significant role in designing a positive customer experience. Learn more about Customer Segmentation and The Martec Group: martecgroup.com Connect with Emily on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilybielak

Tom and Curtis are joined by April Martini, co-founder of Forthright People, who specializes in brand strategy, to discuss the importance of branding and brand strategy in driving successful lead generation. They emphasize the need for companies to go beyond lead generation and focus on building a strong brand that resonates with their target audiences. Tune in to hear them explore the need for ongoing brand evaluation and adaptation to stay relevant in a changing market. Takeaways: Companies that focus on brand strategy in addition to lead generation are more successful at converting leads.Brand strategy involves understanding the target audience, differentiating from competitors, and communicating the unique value proposition.Nonprofits face unique challenges in brand strategy due to multiple stakeholder groups and the need to communicate their mission effectively.Active listening and customer insights are crucial in developing a compelling brand message.Brand strategy should be revisited regularly to adapt to changes in the market and maintain relevance. Learn more about Forthright People: forthright-people.com Check out the Marketing Smarts podcast: https://forthright-people.com/resources/ Connect with April on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/april-martini-3197644/

Tom and Curtis are joined by guest Matt Griffin, CEO of Insight Analytics, to discuss the notion that “Consulting services are not sold…they’re bought.” Matt shares his insights on sales and marketing in the consulting industry, highlighting the importance of building trust and credibility with clients. They explore the value of problem-solving and creating value for clients, and the role of thought leadership and content marketing in attracting clients.  Takeaways: Building trust and credibility is crucial in attracting consulting clients. Creating value for clients and solving their problems is more important than traditional sales tactics for consultants and consulting firms. Thought leadership and content marketing can help establish expertise and attract clients who don’t yet know you. Consulting is a relationship-based business, and success comes from understanding and addressing clients' specific needs and challenges. Learn more about Incite Analytics: inciteanalytics.com Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgriffin02/

Chris Jimenez, founder of Alter Orbit Coaching, joins Curtis and Tom to talk about the power of active listening when it comes to sales meetings and pitches. Chris, an executive coach to professionals in a variety of job functions and industries, emphasizes the need to truly understand the customer's needs and emotions, rather than just focusing on selling a solution. The group also highlights the value of human connection in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and transactional. The conversation touches on the significance of modeling core values within a company and creating a culture of listening.  Takeaways: Active listening is crucial in sales and marketing to understand the customer's needs and emotions. Human connection is valuable in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and transactional. Modeling core values and creating a culture of listening within a company can lead to better customer relationships. Ask open-ended questions, be present and engaged in conversations, and make the customer feel heard and understood. Learn more about Alter Orbit Coaching: https://alterorbitcoaching.com/Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherjjimenez/

Accomplished leadership trainer and coach Denise Roberts, founder of Playing to Win, joins Tom and Curtis to share how her perhaps unorthodox methods of presenting and teaching have allowed her to fortify a leading position as a premier leadership trainer, especially for emerging leaders. Denise comes to us by way of MichBusiness and the National Association of Business Resources, for which she leads multiple leadership training cohorts for emerging leaders throughout the year, known as Ignite Leadership Training's Jumpstart program. Join in to hear why Death by Powerpoint is no longer an option when presenting to groups, and follow along to adopt some new methodologies for presenting and training to better engage audiences. Be sure to consider her leadership training program to help "jump start" the leadership skills in your organization's next generation of leadership! Takeaways: PowerPoint in training and webinars often leads to information overload and lacks application.Effective trainings focus on learning by doing and encourage discussion and application of concepts.Different learners have different preferences, and it's important to cater to their needs.Young leaders are often hungry to learn and benefit from immersive and collaborative training experiences.Leadership and management are distinct but interconnected roles. Leadership focuses on understanding and empowering individuals, while management involves control and coordination of tasks.Not everyone is suited for managing people, but anyone can develop leadership skills. Some individuals may excel at coaching and supporting others without taking on managerial responsibilities.Generational differences in the workplace can be a source of conflict or a valuable opportunity for collaboration. It is important to recognize and appreciate the strengths and perspectives of each generation.Effective leadership training goes beyond providing information and emphasizes practical application and self-awareness. Learn more about Ignite Leadership Training: https://michbusiness.com/services/training/ Connect with Denise on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deniserobertssalespartners Learn more about Playing to Win: playtowintogether.com

This week’s guest is Chris Langille, Founder of Advisor Evolved, a digital marketing agency specifically serving independent insurance agencies (though not exclusively). Tom, Curtis, and Chris discuss the benefits Chris has realized by niching down in the digital marketing industry, particularly in the service insurance agencies. They emphasize the importance of focusing on the most profitable lines of business and targeting lower hanging fruit in advertising campaigns. They also highlight the need for a well-functioning sales process and the importance of aligning sales and marketing efforts. The conversation touches on the challenges of working with limited budgets and the need for a comprehensive backend process to maximize the return on investment. Plus: what is the current state and potential future for AI in digital advertising and marketing? Topics + Takeaways: Niching down vertically or horizontally allows for the creation of scalable products and services and enables specialization in a specific industry or vertical.Focusing on the most profitable lines of business and targeting lower hanging fruit in advertising campaigns can lead to more effective and efficient marketing efforts.Having a well-functioning sales process and aligning sales and marketing efforts are crucial for maximizing the return on investment in advertising.Working with limited budgets requires careful planning and prioritization of marketing activities, as well as a comprehensive backend process to ensure leads are effectively converted into customers.While AI is an exciting development in the digital marketing industry, it is important to approach it with caution and consider its limitations and potential impact on the industry. Chris’s website: advisorevolved.com Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislangille119

Curtis and Tom are pleased to welcome Scott Daigger, Founder of Buddy Web Design & Development, to the podcast to address a much-debated and oft-considered dilemma: What should the budget be for my new website? Scott walks us and the listener through his recommended process for identifying the appropriate budget (and the appropriate development partners) for any size website, from DIY to premium enterprise level. For an in-depth explanation of the concepts covered in this episode, check out Scott's handy guide: "Five Things to Consider When Creating Your Website Budget." Takeways: Determining a budget range is crucial when budgeting for a new website.Factors such as functionality, design, content and ongoing maintenance can affect the cost of a website.Clear communication between the client and the agency is essential to ensure that all expectations and requirements are met.Considering the long-term goals and strategies for a website is important when budgeting.Managed service plans can provide ongoing support and maintenance for a website. Scott's website: buddywdd.com Connect with Scott on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdaigger https://bullhornsbullseyes.com/episode-30/

Tom and Curtis take a closer look at the sales funnel model, including ways salespeople and marketers can guide prospects into and down through the funnel. Curtis makes the important point that there exists both the marketing funnel and the sales funnel. Is there overlap? Should there be? How do you connect them? And how do you get more people to enter the funnels, follow the funnels…and even flip the funnels! Takeaways: Explaining the traditional sales funnel and why it’s important AIDA: Aware, Interest, Desire, Action RACE: Reach, Act, Convert, Engage It’s critical to know where every unique prospect is in the sales funnel and where they are currently on the customer journey (or not).  Mismatching sales and marketing activity with prospects’ self-identified position in the funnel or on their journey is a death knell for sales opportunities. But the inverse is also true: Make sure you have content, tactics, and strategies to serve every client and prospect where they are today and where you want them to go in the future.

Kate Simon, the director of coaching at Glover U, joins the podcast to retell her remarkable story, from sales intern to sales mastery with Glover Agency. She, Curtis and Tom discuss the importance of building personal relationships in business, the role of Glover U in coaching and training real estate agents, and the alignment between sales and marketing. Kate shares her experience with cold calling and emphasizes the need for authenticity and empathy in sales. She also highlights the importance of understanding the consumer's end goal and tailoring the messaging accordingly. Tune in to learn more about Glover U. Takeaways: Building personal relationships is important in businessGlover U provides coaching and training for real estate agentsAuthenticity and empathy are crucial in salesUnderstanding the consumer's end goal is key in messagingPatience is necessary in sales and marketing activitiesFollow someone who has walked the path you want to goAlign sales and marketing to achieve better results Connect with Kate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katetarganski/ Visit Glover U: https://www.gloveru.com/ Learn more and watch Kate’s story: https://www.gloveru.com/real-estate-coaches/kate-simon

Tom and Curtis welcome Dave Tear, owner of Sales Coaches’ Corner, to the podcast to discuss the changing landscape of sales and the importance of having a selling system. They highlight the need for salespeople to focus on opening opportunities rather than closing deals, as well as the value of building rapport and mirroring the prospect. The conversation also touches on the role of technology in sales, the power of effective subject lines in emails, and the importance of understanding the prospect's pain. In the end, the episode emphasizes the need for sales professionals to adapt to the evolving sales environment and provide value to their prospects. Tune in if you’re a sucker for sports puns! Takeaways: Focus on opening opportunities rather than closing dealsBuild rapport and mirror the prospect to establish trustAdapt to the changing sales landscape and leverage technologyCraft effective subject lines in emails to cut through the clutterUnderstand the prospect's pain and provide value Connect with Dave on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-tear-693a50266/ Visit Sales Coaches’ Corner: https://www.salescoachescorner.com

Tom and Curtis are pleased to welcome Brenda Meller, an expert LinkedIn coach, to the podcast to discuss strategies for using LinkedIn effectively. Brenda shares valuable intel on recent changes in the LinkedIn algorithm, the importance of engaging with other users' content, and the value of thought leadership ads. Brenda stresses the importance of employee advocacy and brand ambassadorship on LinkedIn, underscoring the need for companies to empower their employees to engage on the platform and sharing strategies to increase employee participation. The three also touch on the role of brand building in supporting ad spend and the importance of working with experts to maximize the effectiveness of LinkedIn marketing. Takeaways: Engaging with other users' content is key to increasing organic reach on LinkedIn.LinkedIn's algorithm prioritizes genuine engagement over viral content.Optimizing profiles and posts for the target audience is crucial for success on LinkedIn.Brand building at the top of the funnel supports ad spend and enhances overall marketing efforts.Working with experts can help maximize the effectiveness of LinkedIn marketing. Employee advocacy and brand ambassadorship are crucial for companies to increase their reach and engagement on LinkedIn.LinkedIn is not just a job search platform but also a professional networking site for brand building and thought leadership.LinkedIn profiles should be tailored to connect with and help the ideal target audience.Acknowledging and rewarding employees for their engagement on LinkedIn can encourage further participation.Thought leaders within the company should be encouraged to share brand content on their personal profiles for increased authenticity and reach.LinkedIn offers various features and updates, such as premium membership for company pages and a videos tab for more engaging content.

Tom and Curtis are joined by Tricia Meyer, founder and managing attorney at Meyer Law, which provides insights on the different types of contracts and their significance in protecting both parties. Tricia begins by sharing her experience with the Clever Baby, a teething and medicine dispenser product, and the importance of contracts in retail partnerships.  The conversation highlights the need for clear and balanced contracts to mitigate risks and avoid conflicts. Tricia emphasizes the need for simple and clear sales commission plans and contract terms that can be easily understood and tracked. They also discuss the balance between protecting both parties and not making the contract overly complex. Tricia also announces the launch of her product, Clever Baby, on Target.com and Bye Bye Baby. Takeaways: Contracts are essential in sales and marketing to protect both parties and mitigate risks.Different types of contracts, such as customer contracts, referral agreements, reseller agreements, and brand ambassador agreements, serve different purposes and require careful consideration.Intellectual property and confidentiality are key areas to address in contracts.Automating the contract process can make it more efficient and less burdensome.Having clear and balanced contracts in place can prevent conflicts and provide a solid foundation for business relationships. Sales commission plans should be simple and easy to trackContracts should be tailored to the specific needs of the business and its clientsRegularly review and update contracts to ensure they align with the businessBalance the need for protection with simplicity and clarity in contractsConsider the risk tolerance of both parties when negotiating contract terms Tricia’s website: MeetMeyerLaw.com Connect with Tricia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meyertricia/

This week we’re publishing a “bonus episode,” an interview with Jigar Navadiya, co-founder of DataSlush. Jigar’s company is a pioneering research-based organization dedicated to helping companies unlock the hidden potential within their data.Tom wasn’t able to join the show the special-episode recording, so Jigar and Curtis recorded the episode onsite at our friends’ studio at Auxiom. Curtis and Jigar discuss their 10+ year working relationship, which began when Jigar solved a problem posted by Curtis on an online coding forum and blossomed into a friendship and working partnership as part of Collideascope’s “Teamlance” model. Topics + Takeaways: Learn about DataSlush's expertise in applying data analytics, machine learning, and AI to solve clients’s marketing challenges, such as implementing Google Analytics and Tag Manager.Jigar attended the recent Google Next conference and learned about new AI agents being developed for tasks like customer service.Jigar shares about DataSlush's collaboration to develop an AI tutor to improve math literacy by providing hints rather than direct answers to problems.Exploring the challenges and opportunities of using AI in education effectively.The use of OKRs (objectives and key results) to set goals and track progress of marketing initiatives. Jigar’s website: DataSlush.comConnect with Jigar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jigarnavadiya/

Curtis and Tom interview Nick Swan, the founder of SEOtesting.com, about the state of SEO in 2024 and the importance of tracking and analyzing website user data. They discuss the recent algorithm updates by Google, the impact of helpful content on search rankings, and the potential changes in the search engine results page (SERP).  Nick explains how SEOtesting.com helps SEO professionals automate data collection, track changes, and measure the impact of their SEO efforts. Curtis and Tom discuss their experiences with SEO testing and the impact it has had on their clients' websites. They share examples of successful SEO tests, such as improving website speed and optimizing page titles and meta descriptions. They also discuss the importance of human involvement in content creation and the potential future of search engine results.  Takeaways: Algorithm updates by Google can significantly impact search rankings, and it is important for SEO professionals to stay on top of these changes.The preference for helpful content in search rankings has been observed, and SEO professionals should focus on creating valuable and informative content.SEOtesting.com provides a comprehensive tool for tracking and analyzing SEO data, including accurate data from Google Search Console.The tool allows users to monitor trends, compare benchmarks, and run experiments to improve search rankings and demonstrate the impact of their SEO efforts. SEO testing can have a significant impact on website performance and organic traffic.Improving website speed and server response time can lead to increased impressions and traffic.Optimizing page titles and meta descriptions can improve search engine rankings and click-through rates.Human involvement in content creation is essential for creating engaging and relevant content.The future of search engine results may involve AI-generated answers and changes in search behavior. Nick’s website: seotesting.com Connect with Nick on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/nickswan

Building off last week’s mention of “The PESO Model,” Tom and Curtis discuss the power and benefit of integrated communications with Nikki Little, Senior Vice President at Franco, who shares her insights on integrated communications and the PESO model. The conversation covers topics such as the evolution of the communications industry, the keys to keeping communications integrated, the role that specialists and generalists play now and will going forward. Takeaways: Integrated communications involves the integration of paid, earned, shared, and owned media to build trust, authenticity, authority, and brand awareness.Strong internal communication and cross-departmental collaboration are key to keeping communications integrated.Specialists and generalists both play important roles in integrated communications, with specialists focusing on specific areas and generalists providing a well-rounded perspective.A strategy-first approach is crucial in integrating a non-integrated marketing toolkit.Collecting and analyzing data is essential for making informed decisions and measuring the success of integrated communications efforts. Franco’s website and podcast, frankly: franco.com Connect with Nikki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkilittle/

Curtis and Tom interview Cory Lindholm, a paid advertising expert, about the role of PPC advertising in B2B marketing. They discuss budgeting strategies, the importance of quality scores, and the value of data analysis in optimizing campaigns. Corey emphasizes the need for businesses to be willing to take risks and invest in PPC advertising, as it can generate high-quality leads and drive revenue. He also predicts that, as machine learning and predictive algorithms improve, advertisers will see better results and value from their PPC campaigns. Takeaways: PPC advertising is valuable for both consumer product goods and B2B professional services providers.Budgeting for PPC campaigns should consider factors such as average cost per click, conversion rates, and maximum cost per acquisition.Quality scores play a crucial role in determining the cost and effectiveness of PPC campaigns.Data analysis and visualization are essential for optimizing PPC campaigns and making informed decisions.Attribution tools and improved analytics platforms will enhance the accuracy and effectiveness of PPC advertising in the future. Cory's Website: adsbycory.com Cory on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corylindholm/

Tom (especially) and Curtis are thrilled to welcome guest Jeff Large, CEO and founder of Come Alive Creative to the podcast to talk about....what else? — podcasting! They cover topics such as podcasting strategy, production considerations, and budgeting. Jeff emphasizes the importance of defining goals and target audience when starting and building a podcast. Important: consider this an investment in your brand and determine early on whether this is a DIY passion project or an honest-to-goodness marketing endeavor. Takeaways Finding the right fit for podcasting services involves understanding the goals and aligning them with the capabilities and resources available.Specializing in approach rather than industry can lead to better results, focusing on businesses that understand the importance of teaching, relational capacity, networking, and brand identity.Promotion and marketing are crucial for podcast success, and it involves a combination of owned, paid, and earned strategies to reach the target audience.Measuring success in podcasting goes beyond download numbers and focuses on factors like total listen-through, completion rates, and engagement with the audience.Personal podcasting projects can provide a creative outlet and a break from business-focused content, while board games offer a fun and engaging activity for families.VIDEO COURSE: Podcasting for Beginners (temporarily discounted) Jeff’s website: https://www.jefflarge.com Connect with Jeff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefflarge/

In this very special episode of Bullhorns and Bullseyes, Curtis and Tom take turns sharing their personal “secrets” of their own particular crafts — Tom in content development and Curtis in lead-gen and analytics. Tune in to hear their “takes,” and feel free to adopt our tricks and apply them to your own trade! Takeaways: They’re a secret! You have to listen to get them!