Mindful Money

Jonathan DeYoe

Do you struggle with money? You’re not alone. Money is a means, not an end. It’s a necessity of life for sure, but more money does not always guarantee a “good life”. Money enables many aspects of modern life, but as a dominant consideration it becomes destructive. The paradox is that more time and energy spent on personal finance does NOT create better outcomes. Unlike many other parts of life, we can’t create better outcomes by being smarter, spending more time, or putting in more effort. Join Mindful Money author and experienced 40-year investor Jonathan DeYoe as he shares stories from artists, authors, entrepreneurs, and other advisors about how they mindfully minimize their need to think about money and get more out of life. If you aren’t happy with your finances, feel like money takes more time that it should, or want to place your financial decisions into the broader context of your life, this show is for you. Each episode will draw the line between the “enough” activities that the academics tell us are additive to family outcomes, and those “little bit more” efforts that take time and sap energy, but do NOT improve outcomes. read less
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Episodes

Christine Benz — Rethinking Retirement: How to Plan for Wealth, Health, and Purpose
Feb 5 2025
Christine Benz — Rethinking Retirement: How to Plan for Wealth, Health, and Purpose
Christine Benz is director of personal finance and retirement planning for Morningstar and senior columnist for Morningstar.com. In that role, she focuses on retirement and portfolio planning for individual investors. She also co-hosts a podcast for Morningstar, The Long View, which features in-depth interviews with thought leaders in investing and personal finance. She is a frequent public speaker and is widely quoted in the media, including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Barron’s, CNBC, and PBS. In 2020, Barron’s named her to its inaugural list of the 100 most influential women in finance; she appeared on the 2021 list as well. In 2021, Barron’s named her as one of the 10 most influential women in wealth management. In this episode, I talk with Christine about some key lessons from her book, How to Retire: 20 Lessons for a Happy, Successful, and Wealthy Retirement. We cover everything from smart withdrawal strategies to healthcare planning and the deeper question of purpose in retirement. Christine shares expert insights on balancing financial security with personal fulfillment, helping you prepare for a meaningful life post-career. Whether you’re planning ahead or already retired, this conversation offers valuable guidance for making the most of your next chapter. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:21) - Meet Christine Benz (02:53) - Christine's experiences with money and entrepreneurship growing up (05:06) - Christine's career journey (10:22) - Writing a book on retirement  (15:24) - Finding your retirement style  (22:10) - Health and retirement (25:59) - The importance of relationships in retirement (29:16) - Finding purpose in retirement (32:55) - The Role of financial advisors in retirement planning (35:20) - Best advice for a successful retirement (36:44) - One habit to stop for a happier retirement (37:42) - Personal reflections and key takeaways Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Maggie Jackson — The Hidden Power of Uncertainty: Why Not Knowing Is a Strength
Jan 29 2025
Maggie Jackson — The Hidden Power of Uncertainty: Why Not Knowing Is a Strength
Maggie Jackson is an award-winning author and journalist with a global reach. Her new book, Uncertain: The Wisdom and Wonder of Being Unsure, explores why we should seek not-knowing in an era of angst and flux.  In this episode, I talk with Maggie about the transformative power of uncertainty, challenging cultural assumptions about certainty and success. Maggie explains how embracing uncertainty fosters creativity, resilience, and well-being. Drawing from neuroscience and personal insights, we discuss strategies for tolerating and even thriving in the unknown. From the surprising role of ambivalence in leadership to daily practices that build confidence in uncertainty, we dive into practical wisdom for navigating life’s unpredictability with grace and curiosity. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:15) - Meet Maggie Jackson (02:36) - Maggie's background and early life (04:14) - Defining uncertainty (06:49) - The importance of embracing uncertainty (11:29) - Cultural and individual perspectives on certainty (18:17) - The myth of certainty (21:45) - The benefits of embracing uncertainty (26:05) - Choosing thoughtfulness over fear (28:59) - Curiosity and tolerating the stress of the unknown (34:44) - Sitting with discomfort and using uncertainty as a tool (36:51) - Applying uncertainty in decision-making (40:47) - Personal reflections and final thoughts Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Jessica Calarco — Why Women Are America’s Safety Net: The Hidden Cost of Caregiving
Jan 22 2025
Jessica Calarco — Why Women Are America’s Safety Net: The Hidden Cost of Caregiving
Jessica Calarco is a Sociologist and Professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She is an award-winning teacher, a leading expert on inequalities in family life and education, and the author of Holding it Together: How Women Became America’s Safety Net.  In this episode, I talk with Jessica about how the U.S. relies on women as an unofficial safety net, burdening them with unpaid and underpaid caregiving roles. We discuss the myths of meritocracy, societal inequalities, and the structural forces pushing women into precarious labor. Jessica also highlights care’s transformative potential, showing how collective care policies could alleviate inequality and foster solidarity. It’s an eye-opening conversation on systemic issues and solutions that prioritize dignity, opportunity, and shared responsibility for all. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:05) - Jessica's background and early lessons on money and entrepreneurship (05:20) - The research behind 'Holding It Together' (06:35) - How COVID-19 impacted mothers (07:36) - Statistics on gender inequality in caregiving (08:48) - The historical context of the US social safety net (09:37) - The role of wealthy business owners (11:20) - Gender dynamics in caregiving (13:10) - How a weak social safety net impacts women (17:47) - Cultural differences and gender roles (19:08) - The false promises of meritocracy (22:21) - Why hard work doesn’t guarantee success (24:28) - Building a better social safety net (28:54) - Are big corporations to blame? (32:36) - How government and legislation create a precarious workforce (37:24) - A brighter future for America's overburdened workforce (41:08) - Jessica's takeaways   Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Vicky Reynal — Unlocking the Psychology of Money with Vicky Reynal
Jan 15 2025
Vicky Reynal — Unlocking the Psychology of Money with Vicky Reynal
Vicky Reynal is the first financial psychotherapist in the UK, where she has pioneered an approach that applies psychodynamic psychotherapy principles to working with client’s complex relationship with money. Her award-winning book “Money on Your Mind: The Psychology Behind Your Financial Habits” is being translated in 8 languages.  In this episode, I talk with Vicky about the emotional dynamics behind our relationship with money. Vicky discusses the deep emotional connections behind money habits, illustrating how childhood experiences influence behaviors like overspending, hoarding, and financial secrecy. Drawing insights from her book, Money on Your Mind, she emphasizes the importance of curiosity and self-compassion in understanding these patterns. Vicky also explores the societal taboos surrounding money and their role in perpetuating shame and anxiety. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:06) - Meet Vicky Reynal (03:04) - Understanding emotional reactions to money (06:03) - Exploring financial behaviors and emotions (09:43) - The role of curiosity and self-compassion (16:06) - Financial literacy and emotional awareness (25:41) - Generosity and its complexities (29:11) - Navigating inheritance and family dynamics (30:54) - Gender differences in financial perceptions (33:20) - Financial advice for couples Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Jason Schappert — From Small Steps to Big Freedom: Jason Schappert on Redefining Financial Success
Jan 8 2025
Jason Schappert — From Small Steps to Big Freedom: Jason Schappert on Redefining Financial Success
Jason Schappert is a serial entrepreneur and financial technology visionary dedicated to empowering individuals to achieve financial freedom. He is the co-founder of Moola, an AI-driven investment platform that simplifies complex financial concepts and provides personalized insights and recommendations to help users make informed investment decisions.  Jason’s journey from aviation to fintech highlights his passion for teaching and empowering individuals to achieve financial freedom. We explore the importance of financial literacy, the parallels between piloting and investing, and how small, mindful money habits—like saving spare change—can lead to significant financial growth. Jason also shares his mission to simplify financial management for everyday users, offering actionable advice to build wealth and reduce financial stress. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:02) - Meet Jason Schappert (02:45) - What Jason learned about money and entrepreneurship growing up (07:34) - From aviation to financial literacy (10:10) - The birth of Moola (11:17) - The parallels between piloting and investing (18:19) - Moola's vision and future (20:08) - Moola banking and budgeting (22:03) - Real-time reconciliation (24:48) - Financial education and literacy (25:49) - Gamifying financial education (29:48) - Investment advice and strategies (36:16) - Personal reflections Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Ed Vargo — Empowering Women with Financial Confidence with Ed Vargo
Dec 18 2024
Ed Vargo — Empowering Women with Financial Confidence with Ed Vargo
Ed Vargo is the Co-Founder and CEO of Burning River Advisory Group and enlightenHer a community focused on financial mentorship for women. With more than 20 years in financial services, Ed helps women navigate long-term financial planning for all stages, including retirement and transitions related to divorce or spousal death. In this episode, I talk with Ed about empowering women to gain confidence and clarity around money. Ed shares how his mother’s financial struggles after divorce shaped his passion for helping women gain financial confidence. We discuss the challenges women face—like emotional attachments, societal biases, and confidence gaps—and how holistic financial planning can make a life-changing difference. Ed also highlights his approach to teaching healthy money values, both in his family and with clients, offering practical strategies for women navigating transitions like divorce or widowhood. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:47) - Ed’s background and financial journey (09:18) - Behavioral differences in financial approaches (13:30) - The financial services industry and gender dynamics (25:27) - Creating teachable moments about money (28:09) - Impact of parental money conversations (30:26) - Challenges of modern parenting (32:44) - The role of financial advisors (34:02) - Holistic financial planning (38:48) - Navigating divorce financially (45:33) - Introducing enlightenHer Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
George Kinder — The Three Domains of Freedom: Redefining Life, Money, and Mindfulness with George Kinder
Dec 4 2024
George Kinder — The Three Domains of Freedom: Redefining Life, Money, and Mindfulness with George Kinder
George Kinder is an author and international thought leader. Known in the financial industry as the father of Life Planning, George authored three books on money as he revolutionized client-centered financial advice through experiential trainings for thousands of advisors from more than 30 countries across six continents. In this episode, I talk with George about his latest book, The Three Domains of Freedom, which explores achieving freedom through mindfulness, purposeful living, and societal change. We dive into the power of contemplative practices, the balance between financial necessity and personal growth, and the need for a fiduciary standard across all institutions to foster truth, democracy, and sustainability. George challenges us to embrace mindfulness as a tool for moment-to-moment mastery and discusses how intentional life planning can unlock true freedom. We also address systemic issues like economic inequality and environmental crises, offering hopeful solutions rooted in shared responsibility and ethical leadership.  In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (03:04) - George’s background and life journey (05:16) - The financialization of life and its impact (09:30) - The importance of mindfulness and contemplative practices (17:15) - The Three Domains of Freedom (21:43) - Reflecting on life’s final moments (22:34) - The importance of relationships and legacy (24:00) - Exploring the third domain of freedom (27:21) - The fiduciary concept and its impact (29:42) - Global standards and the prisoner’s dilemma (32:18) - Revolutionizing corporate responsibility (39:20) - Personal reflections and final thoughts Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.
Jordan Grumet — Breaking the Mirage: How to Find True Purpose Beyond Wealth with Jordan Grumet
Nov 20 2024
Jordan Grumet — Breaking the Mirage: How to Find True Purpose Beyond Wealth with Jordan Grumet
Jordan Grumet found the spark to become a doctor after a deeply personal event reshaped his life's trajectory. The unexpected loss of his father, an oncologist, ignited a passion within him to practice medicine and instilled a unique vantage point that later melded seamlessly with his financial expertise. This convergence of roles has spurred him to explore profound notions like wealth, abundance, and financial independence with a thoughtful and critical lens. In this episode, I talk with Jordan about the shift from chasing societal ideals to building true purpose. Jordan shares insights from his new book, The Purpose Code, emphasizing how embracing community and aligning with personal anchors of joy can lead to a fulfilling life. We also discuss the psychological impact of social media, generational trauma vs. generational growth, and the challenges of defining a moral and ethical life. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (03:24) - Jordan's early life and career (07:44) - The mirage of wealth (12:06) - Purpose and community (13:55) - Lack of authenticity, purpose, and economics (15:28) - Little "p" purpose vs. big "P" purpose (20:34) - Purpose and impact (24:11) - Generational trauma vs generational growth (29:17) - Discovering Purpose Anchors (32:17) - How to engage in your chosen purpose (33:21) - Jordan's social media habits (37:11) - The ultimate question of morality (38:56) - Connect with Jordan Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
133: Brian Herriot - The Time Freedom Equation: Unlocking the Secret to Doing More of What You Love
Nov 13 2024
133: Brian Herriot - The Time Freedom Equation: Unlocking the Secret to Doing More of What You Love
Brian Herriot writes and speaks about the power of time freedom. As a financial coach and founder of Choosy Consultant, he helps mid-career professionals escape the corporate grind. His frameworks for personal growth and financial success all start with taking back control of our one truly limited resource: time. In this episode, I talk with Brian about finding freedom and balance in your career. Brian shares insights from his journey as a consultant and founder of Choosy Consultant, where he helps mid-career professionals design lives that prioritize time over money. Emphasizing the importance of self-reflection, Brian advocates for “lifestyle freedom”—the ability to define and pursue personal success without succumbing to conventional career pressures. We discuss strategies for avoiding burnout, reimagining financial goals, and aligning one’s career with core values. Brian also touches on “the smile curve” of happiness and how he restructured his life to enjoy summers at a lakeside cabin, inspiring others to envision work as a means to support meaningful living. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:02) - Meet Brian Harriot (03:37) - The path to entrepreneurship (06:36) - The importance of time and lifestyle freedom (07:35) - Career arc and founding Choosy Consultant (10:57) - Balancing financial and professional freedom (17:49) - The Smile Curve: Understanding life’s happiness arc (21:50) - Navigating midlife transitions (24:55) - Creative financial solutions (25:45) - Breaking conventional thinking (28:04) - Understanding the corporate grind (30:05) - Balancing entrepreneurship and personal life (41:02) - Investment strategies (43:17) - Personal reflections Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
124: Modular Financial Planning 02: Defining What is Truly Worth Seeking
Sep 11 2024
124: Modular Financial Planning 02: Defining What is Truly Worth Seeking
In this episode of Mindful Money, we'll talk about the first step in the modular financial planning process. Contrary to common advice, financial planning should begin with understanding what is worth seeking in life. It's important to go through a process of self-discovery and introspection before setting financial goals. We'll explore the eight pillars of happiness and how they form the foundation for lasting happiness and effective financial planning. Join me as we learn how to align our financial decisions with what truly matters, ultimately leading to a fulfilling and satisfying life. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:08) - Life lessons from my father (01:53) - Challenging materialism (02:49) - The importance of self-discovery (06:11) - Eight pillars of happiness (06:15) - Health: The foundation of happiness (07:21) - Engagement: Active participation in life (08:15) - Relationships: The key to happiness (10:56) - Meaning: Finding purpose in life (12:09) - Accountability: Staying true to yourself (13:16) - Generosity: The joy of giving (15:55) - Optimism: The power of positive thinking (17:15) - Gratitude: Appreciating what you have (18:52) - Conclusion and next steps Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.  Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy