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So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
FIRE
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So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through personal stories and candid conversations. New episodes post every other Thursday.
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Ep. 160 What did ‘On the Media’ get wrong about free speech … again?
May 9 2022
1 hr 15 mins
Ep. 160 What did ‘On the Media’ get wrong about free speech … again?
Twitter is going to become 8chan. At least, that’s what a recent episode of the popular radio program “On the Media” suggests will happen if Elon Musk successfully buys Twitter.Musk promised to bring greater free speech protections to the social media platform. But where Musk sees an opportunity for more freedom, some see the potential for too much freedom. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, Matt Taibbi, Nadine Strossen, and Amna Khalid discuss what “On the Media” got wrong and what they got really wrong in their episode “Ghost in the Machine.” (No, “On the Media,” Twitter will not become a platform for child pornography.) This is the second time we have addressed bad free speech arguments from “On the Media.” The first time was last September, when this same group responded to the episode, “Constitutionally Speaking.” Matt Taibbi is the author of four New York Times bestselling books. He writes a popular Substack newsletter, TK News. Nadine Strossen is a professor of law, emerita at New York Law School and served for 17 years as the president of the ACLU. Amna Khalid is an associate professor of history at Carleton College and the host of a new podcast called “Banished.” Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-what-on-the-media-got-wrong-about-free-speech-again/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
May 9 2022
1 hr 15 mins
Ep. 159 Hugh Hefner, free speech scrapbooker
Did you know Hugh Hefner holds the Guinness World Record for owning the largest personal scrapbook collection in the world?When he was not building the global Playboy empire, he spent his Saturdays compiling more than 3,000 scrapbooks, chronicling free speech and press issues during his lifetime. Stuart N. Brotman, professor at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, was granted exclusive access to Hefner’s scrapbooks. On today’s episode, he talks about what he found and about his new book, “The First Amendment Lives On: Conversations Commemorating Hugh M. Hefner's Legacy of Enduring Free Speech and Free Press Values.” Show notes: Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
May 5 2022
45 mins
Ep. 159 Disney and Elon Musk
Does Disney have free speech rights? And did Florida violate the First Amendment when it punished the company for its political activism? Elon Musk is buying Twitter. What should free speech advocates make of that? Recurring guest and famed First Amendment scholar Robert Corn-Revere is here to break it all down for us. He’s a partner at the law firm Davis Wright-Tremaine, a member of FIRE’s Advisory Council, and the author of “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder: The First Amendment and the Censor’s Dilemma.” Show notes: Transcript Subscribe to First Amendment News“Punishing Disney for Opposing Florida’s ‘Don’t Say Gay’ law poses Serious First Amendment Problems” by Robert Corn-Revere Open letter to Elon Musk from Greg Lukianoff on preserving free expression on social mediaPress Release: “Elon Musk to Acquire Twitter”Electronic Frontier Foundation: “Twitter Has a New Owner. Here’s What He Should Do.” www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Apr 26 2022
39 mins
Ep. 158 What is academic freedom?
What is academic freedom? And who polices its boundaries? Our guests on today’s show argue that the popular conception of academic freedom has become too closely connected with the concept of free speech. Penn State Professor Michael Bérubé and Portland State Professor Jennifer Ruth are the authors of “It’s Not Free Speech: Race, Democracy, and the Future of Academic Freedom.” Show notes: TranscriptThe AAUP’s 1915 and 1940 statements on academic freedomThe AAUP’s “On Freedom of Expression and Campus Speech Codes”“When Professors’ Speech Is Disqualifying” by Michael Bérubé and Jennifer Ruth“Democracy, Expertise, and Academic Freedom: A First Amendment Jurisprudence for the Modern State” by Robert C. Post“How Genetics Is Changing Our Understanding of ‘Race’” by David Reich SUNY Fredonia: Philosophy Professor Suspended for Philosophizing About Pedophilia, the Stephen Kershnar case“Hate Speech and the Limits of Free Expression,” Kenyon College panel featuring Ulrich Baer (video) www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Apr 21 2022
1 hr 26 mins
Ep. 157 Former BBC bureau chief Konstantin Eggert and what you need to know about censorship in Russia
Konstantin Eggert, a native Muscovite, has reported on Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. He started his reporting career in Moscow in 1990. From 1998-2009, he was senior correspondent, then editor-in-chief, of the BBC Russian Service Moscow bureau. Later he worked for ExxonMobil Russia and Russian media outlets, Kommersant and TV Rain. Now, living in Lithuania, Eggert is a vocal critic of the Putin regime and has more than a few thoughts on censorship in Russia: specifically, how it compares to Soviet censorship, the decline of independent media in the country, Russian history, and the war in Ukraine. Eggert currently works for a German broadcaster, Deutsche Welle. Show notes: TranscriptEggert on Twitter: @kvoneggertRulers and Victims: The Russians in the Soviet Union www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Apr 11 2022
1 hr 22 mins
Ep. 156 What Russians don’t know about the war in Ukraine
The Russian government has purged independent media, banned protests, and shut down social media access. So, do Russians know the truth about the war in Ukraine? Ksenia Turkova is a journalist from Russia who currently works for Voice of America. Before coming to the United States she worked for a number of Russian news outlets, including some that were shut down by the Russian government. She also spent time as a radio host in Ukraine. On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” Turkova shares her reporting on Russian censorship and the war in Ukraine, as well as some of her firsthand experiences as a reporter in the country. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-what-russians-dont-know-about-the-war-in-ukraine/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Mar 24 2022
48 mins
Ep. 155 The John Roberts Supreme Court
“No chief justice in our history has had as much influence on the law of freedom of expression as John Roberts,” according to Ronald K.L. Collins and David L. Hudson Jr. They are the authors of a new Brooklyn Law Review article, “The Roberts Court—Its First Amendment Free Expression Jurisprudence: 2005–2021.” On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” Collins and Hudson review 58 First Amendment rulings that have been issued since John Roberts became Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Collins is a First Amendment scholar, author, and editor of First Amendment News. Hudson is the Justice Robert H. Jackson legal fellow at FIRE and a professor at Belmont University College of Law. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-john-roberts-supreme-court/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Mar 10 2022
1 hr
Ep. 154 Sarah Palin v. New York Times
On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” we are joined by Robert Corn-Revere and David Hudson to discuss Sarah Palin v. New York Times, a defamation case that has captured national attention. Corn-Revere is a partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP and the author of the new book, “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder.” Hudson is the Justice Robert H. Jackson legal fellow at FIRE and a professor at Belmont University College of Law. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-sarah-palin-v-new-york-times/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Feb 22 2022
41 mins
Ep. 153 Elitist vs. egalitarian free speech (live recording, Q&A)
On today’s episode, we feature a live recording of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast” with Jacob Mchangama, author of “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media,” in conversation with FIRE’s Greg Lukianoff, Sarah McLaughlin, host Nico Perrino, and NYU professor Stephen D. Solomon. The panelists discuss how lessons from free speech movements throughout world history can help explain today’s divisions over the value of free speech, and how conflicts between egalitarian and elitist schools of free speech thought are still with us in the digital age. This recording was a co-sponsored event with First Amendment Watch at New York University. www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Feb 4 2022
1 hr 8 mins
Ep. 152 Banning critical race theory
On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by FIRE’s Joe Cohn and the American Enterprise Institute’s Max Eden to debate and discuss legislative efforts to ban critical race theory, or so-called “divisive concepts,” from being taught in schools. Transcript Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin’s executive order on critical race theory “Ban Critical Race Theory now” by Max Eden “Legislative efforts to address teachings on race pose threats to academic freedom” by Joe Cohn “State legislatures continue efforts to restrict academic freedom” by Tyler Coward “13 important points in the campus & K-12 ‘critical race theory’ debate” by Greg Lukianoff et al. www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Jan 20 2022
1 hr 19 mins
Ep. 151 Fighting words
There are very few exceptions to the First Amendment. “Fighting words” is one of them. But since the Supreme Court first outlined this exception in 1942, it hasn’t shown much interest in revisiting the issue. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we’re joined by First Amendment scholar and FIRE Legal Fellow David L. Hudson Jr., who argues the “fighting words” doctrine is still alive and well in lower courts and is used to justify punishing everything from toilet tirades to cursing in a canoe. TranscriptFighting words overview “The Fighting Words Doctrine: Alive and Well in the Lower Courts” by David Hudson “Can anti-profanity laws and the fighting words doctrine be squared with the First Amendment?” by David Hudson Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942) FIRE’s TikTok video about Chaplinsky Cohen v. California (1971) Gooding v. Wilson (1972) Lewis v. City of New Orleans (1974) City of Houston v. Hill (1987) Texas v. Johnson (1989) www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Jan 13 2022
45 mins
Ep. 150 George Orwell
Who was Eric Arthur Blair, better known by his pen name “George Orwell?” On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore the life and work of an author who died at the age of 46 but whose writings — namely “Animal Farm” and “1984” — still help to shape our understanding of the freedoms of speech and conscience. Joining us for the discussion is the author of Orwell’s authorized biography, Indiana State University professor Michael Shelden. Shelden’s biography of Orwell was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in 1992. Show notes Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Dec 14 2021
1 hr 3 mins
Ep. 149 Caitlin Flanagan and Greg Lukianoff
On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by The Atlantic magazine Staff Writer Caitlin Flanagan and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss a wide range of topics, including Caitlin’s articles that touch on free speech, her growing up in Berkeley, Calif. the daughter of a professor, and newsroom orthodoxies and censorship. Show notes: Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-caitlin-flanagan-and-greg-lukianoff/Caitlin’s The Atlantic article archive“Can We Take a Joke?” documentary“That’s Not Funny!” by Caitlin Flanagan“The Dark Power of Fraternities” by Caitlin FlanaganDave Chappelle’s “The Closer” Columbia University: Ideological litmus tests at Teachers College Emerson College: Conservative student group investigated for distributing “China Kinda Sus” stickers“Advancing Health Equity: A Guide to Language, Narrative and Concepts” by the American Medical Association and the Association of American Medical Colleges“Letters to a Young Contrarian” by Christopher Hitchens www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Nov 23 2021
1 hr 9 mins
Ep. 148 University of Austin, a new university devoted to free speech
Pano Kanelos believes higher education is broken. But he isn’t waiting for colleges and universities to fix themselves. He’s starting his own. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Kanelos who is the inaugural president of the University of Austin, a new university devoted to free speech and open inquiry. Its initial programming, a Forbidden Courses summer program, aims to foster spirited discussion about the most provocative questions that often lead to censorship or self-censorship at many other universities. Kanelos is a Shakespeare scholar and the former president of St. John's College in Annapolis, Md. He co-founded the University of Austin with Niall Ferguson, Bari Weiss, Heather Heying, and Joe Lonsdale. Show notes: TranscriptUniversity of Austin website “We Can’t Wait for Universities to Fix Themselves. So We’re Starting a New One.” by Pano KanelosNew York Times: “They Say Colleges Are Censorious. So They Are Starting a New One.” “I’m Helping to Start a New College Because Higher Ed Is Broken” by Niall Ferguson www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Nov 9 2021
46 mins
Ep. 147 ‘The Mind of the Censor’ with Robert Corn-Revere
Censors almost never think they are censors. They often see themselves as heroes, saving the world from the destructive effects of rock ‘n’ roll, movies, comic books, pornography, video games, the internet, etc. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, author Robert Corn-Revere joins us to discuss how censors operate and why they never occupy the moral high ground. Robert is an attorney and partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP and the author of the new book, “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder.” Show notes: Transcript https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-mind-of-the-censor-with-robert-corn-revere/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Oct 28 2021
1 hr 2 mins
Ep. 146 Trigger warnings and DEI statements
A consensus has emerged from a growing pile of scholarly research: Trigger warnings don’t work. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Carleton College associate professors Amna Khalid and Jeffrey Snyder to explore what the latest research says about the efficacy of trigger warnings. We also discuss one of the more contentious debates surrounding academic freedom: the rising prevalence of so-called diversity, equity, and inclusion statements for college faculty job applications and evaluations. Show notes: Transcript “How to Fix Diversity and Equity” by Amna Khalid and Jeffrey Snyder “The Data Is In — Trigger Warnings Don’t Work” by Amna Khalid and Jeffrey Snyder Why We Don’t Use Trigger Warnings — An Animated Guide www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Oct 14 2021
1 hr 10 mins
Ep. 145 First Amendment history with Yale Professor Akhil Amar
September 25 was First Amendment Day in America — the anniversary of the date in 1789 when Congress approved 12 amendments to our Constitution, including what we today call the Bill of Rights. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the origin story and history of America’s First Amendment and its five freedoms. To do so, host Nico Perrino is joined by Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale University Akhil Reed Amar. Amar is the author of “The Words That Made Us: America’s Constitutional Conversation, 1760-1840” and the host of the podcast “Amarica’s Constitution.” Show notes: Transcript“The Words That Made Us: America’s Constitutional Conversation, 1760-1840” by Akhil Reed Amar“The First Amendment’s Firstness” by Akhil Reed Amar“How America’s Constitution Affirmed Freedom of Speech Even Before the First Amendment” by Akhil Reed Amar www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Sep 30 2021
1 hr 36 mins
Ep. 144 Matt Taibbi, Nadine Strossen, and Amna Khalid respond to ‘On the Media’ free speech critiques
Last month, On the Media, a popular radio program from New York City’s WNYC, aired an episode that questioned free speech values and challenged so-called “free speech absolutism.” On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Matt Taibbi, Nadine Strossen, and Amna Khalid, who provide direct responses to many of the free speech critiques made in On the Media’s program. Show notes: Transcript On the Media’s free speech episode: “Constitutionally Speaking” “NPR trashes free speech. A brief response” by Matt TaibbiFamous Christopher Hitchens lecture defending free speechTra lalalala song from Soviet UnionDocumentary: Mighty Ira www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Sep 16 2021
1 hr 16 mins
Ep. 143 Politics and thought reform in K-12 education
Are America’s schools becoming too political? FIRE’s Director of High School Programs argues, “Yes.” Bonnie Kerrigan Snyder is an educator with over 20 years of experience, and she’s worried by what she sees. Amidst controversies surrounding so-called critical race theory, school walkouts, and standardized tests, Snyder increasingly hears reports of children “being indoctrinated, bullied, and harassed by their fellow students and teachers for not falling into line on various topics.” On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss Snyder’s new book, “Undoctrinate: How Politicized Classrooms Harm Kids and Ruin Our Schools—And What We Can Do About It.” Show notes: Transcript West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org
Sep 2 2021
52 mins
Ep. 142 Alfred Hitchcock and Hollywood’s Production Code
Hollywood’s Motion Picture Production Code, popularly referred to as the Hays Code, loomed over films in every stage of movie production from 1934 to 1968. Scripts were reviewed and altered. Actors and filmmakers were forced to redo entire scenes. Editors were asked to cut dialogue and scenes from films. Music was changed. Ultimately, directors had to be cognizant of the censors at all times. In this episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we interview three prominent guests to track the history of film censorship and the eventual demise of the Hays Code. John Billheimer, author of “Hitchcock and the Censors (Screen Classics),” explains Alfred Hitchcock’s unique methods for dealing with controversial subject matter. Laura Wittern-Keller is a professor in the History department at the University at Albany and author of several books on film censorship, including “Freedom of the Screen: Legal Challenges to State Film Censorship, 1915-1981” and “The Miracle Case: Film Censorship and the Supreme Court.” Bob Corn-Revere, partner at Davis Wright Tremaine, is a frequent guest on the show. His forthcoming book “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder: The First Amendment and the Censor’s Dilemma,” is due out in October. Show notes: Transcript Mutual Film Corp. v. Industrial Comm’n of Ohio Joseph Burstyn v. WilsonUnited States v. Paramount PicturesHitchcock and the Censors (Screen Classics) by John BillheimerFreedom of the Screen: Legal Challenges to State Film Censorship, 1915-1981 by Laura Wittern-KellerThe Miracle Case: Film Censorship and the Supreme Court by Laura Wittern-KellerThe Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder: The First Amendment and the Censor’s Dilemma by Bob Corn-RevereHollywood's Censor: Joseph I. Breen and the Production Code Administration by Thomas Doherty
Aug 12 2021
45 mins
